Freedom Disability, a national Social Security Disability Advocacy group, has launched Freedom Cash Rewards, a unique online referral program designed to connect those who need Disability benefits to a premier advocacy service. Through this program, both the referrer and the person being referred would have the opportunity to earn cash rewards starting at $50. ...
[I]n addition to receiving high quality advocacy service for their Social Security Disability case, the disability claimant will also receive $50 once they have completed the initial interview with a Freedom Disability Advocate ...
As the attorneys reading this know, paying for referrals is a good way to lose one's license to practice law. Of course, Freedom Disability is not a law firm.
Does freedom disability not have a single lawyer? If not, is there a firm that they send federal appeals to? If so, then that attorney or the referring firm should be stuck with the ethics violation.
ReplyDeleteNon attorney reps are unnecessary, cannot file in federal court, and cannot be held accountable subject to state bars.
Not to mention these groups tout themselves as disability experts and specialists. Something most state bars prohibit absent a certification as such. And then we also have the win percentages touted, which is a meaningless and confusing statistic which most state bars prohibit.
ReplyDeletePhone a non-attorney representative. Ask questions. Expect intentionally false and misleading answers.
ReplyDelete(1) Will an attorney review my case? (There are bait-and-switch businesses. Yes, attorneys handle all matters. But the firm decides whether a non-attorney will actually represent you at the oral ALJ hearing. We will not tell you whether an attorney or non-attorney will actually represent you at the oral hearing.)
(2) Why is a non-attorney better than an attorney?
(3) What can attorney do that a non-attorney cannot do?
(4) What can a non-attorney do that an attorney cannot do?
(5) If you say that your non-attorneys do a better job than an attorney would, how do you know that?
(6) If you work only with non-attorneys, how would you know about the work of attorneys?
(7) If an attorney does not matter, then you obviously know about case law. Please explain the Circuit's latest ruling in Jones.
(8) Do attorneys charge more?
(9) Explain to me how to cross-examine an Agency expert.
(10) If I sign up with your business and later learn that what you have said is untrue even in part, will you agree in writing to waive your fee?
(11) Are the provisions of the contract with your business negotiable?
(12) Do you advance all costs for medical reports?
(13) Do some attorneys advance all costs for medical reports?
(14) Do you advance costs for CEs?
(15) Do some attorneys advance costs for CEs?
According to their website: "Our Advocates and Attorneys understand the challenges you face and are committed to getting you the disability benefits you deserve."
ReplyDeleteIf they have attorneys then this would seem to be a big disciplinary issue for those attorneys.
On this website I see no claim that there are any attorneys associated with the group, http://www.freedomdisability.com/
ReplyDeleteIn fact at one point on their website, this language appears:
"People looking for representation to improve their chances of approval in filing a Social Security disability claim can get it with an expert non-attorney advocacy group such as Freedom Disability."
So I would be interested to know where the poster above found the quote implying there were attorneys involved. There are any number of ethical violations if there was an attorney involved, including paying for referrals, and referring to oneself as an "expert."
It's right there on their website:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.freedomdisability.com/about-freedom-disability/
If there is a single attorney working for them on their claims this is an ethical violation. The same is true if they refer all of their Federal work to an attorney for a kick back of any kind. If these rep groups want to act like attorneys then treat them like attorneys.
ReplyDeleteIt really is ridiculous that all representatives aren't held to the same ethical obligations as attorneys. You want to have the privilege of representing a client through the Social Security process and receiving a fee for doing so, then you should be prepared to have to follow the same rules.
ReplyDeleteThey even posted job openings for attorney and non-attorneys reps on NOSSCR's site in October. There are clearly attorneys involved. We should have ethical complaints filed in as many places as is humanly possible.
ReplyDeleteAttorney and non-attorney reps are held to the same SSA ethical standards. With exceptions not relevant here, SSA does not regulate the statements representatives make in the context of marketing. In that respect, non-attorneys have a competitive (sic) advantage. State bars prohibit attorneys from making false and misleading statements. Attorney advertising is regulated. Non-attorney reps know that neither SSA nor the FTC will likely punish any false or misleading statement made in the context of marketing. Moreover, given the considerable resources it would take, a non-attorney firm knows that it is highly unlikely that any State bar would make unauthorized-practice claim against the non-attorney firm. The non-attorney firm would claim that its work is authorized by federal statute and any statement about attorney involvement in the firm was either an inadvertent mistake or has nothing to do with practicing law. "We are staffed in part by `attorneys' but since we won't tell you who those attorneys are and in which State they may be licensed or even if they will work on your case, we are not practicing law." The likely fountain of false and misleading statements will be oral only.
ReplyDeleteThat's simply not true that they are held to the same standards. Non-attorney reps do not have attorney-client privilege and I know of specific instances where a non-attorney rep who was working for the client but recommended by an LTD carrier was providing the LTD carrier with updates on the claimant's health and medical records. The claimant was denied their LTD claim because of statements made by their non-attorney representative. If a lawyer did that he'd be disbarred in every single state. For the non-attorney rep it's business as usual and even more referrals from the LTD carrier.
ReplyDelete"That's simply not true that they are held to the same standards." They are held to the same standards BY SSA. The SSA is not concerned at all with non-SSA related matters.
ReplyDeleteAnyone who complains that non-attorney reps are not held State-bar standards is crying about spilt milk. That is water under the bridge. That ship has already sailed. There is no chance -- zero chance -- that there is anything anyone can do formally about non-attorney reps not being held to non-SSA standards. A State bar has no authority -- none -- to prevent non-attorney reps from practicing before the SSA.
Reality: SSA does not care about non-SSA standards. State bars don't care about non-attorney reps so long as they are not practicing law. Reality is not going away.
Thank you for pointing out the obvious that SSA doesn't care about non-SS matters.
ReplyDeleteMy point was that it's ridiculous that the standards are different and they certainly are. You can advertise as you like, make false claims as you please, pay referrals and not even advocate for your client and yet you can still be considered a representative.
Why not just set up shop at the local Social Security office and sign up clients as they enter the building? I'm sure that's allowed for the non-attorneys too
Actually, I think it is a common practice for both attorneys and non-attorneys to set up practice in the same building as SSA offices when building space is available to non-government tenants. Whether trolling for clients in the waiting room is a common practice, I don't know.
ReplyDeleteIt is not ridiculous. To the contrary, it is ridiculous to argue as though only attorneys should represent claimants during Social Security proceedings or, for example, proceedings for VA benefits. Understand that the SSA allows a claimant's relative or neighbor to be a representative. Essentially anyone who has not done something bad in a prior SSA proceeding can be a representative. (This is different from fee withholding.) Ranting and raving against the use of non-attorneys in Social Security proceedings is as pointless as it is naive. And the chance of the Congress amending the Act to allow only attorneys to serve as representatives is zero.
ReplyDeleteThe purpose of my rant wasn't to prohibit non-attorneys from practicing. I know there are many great non-attorney reps who do their best to advocate for their clients. My problem is that there are 2 different sets of rules at play. Besides the fact it clearly puts attorneys at an unfair advantage advertising wise, it certainly is unfair to a client who has an "advocate" telling Social Security one thing and meanwhile feeding information to a 3rd party LTD carrier so that they can deny their LTD claim. You don't see a problem with this? Obviously, I'm not posting on a blog to get Congress to make any changes, I'm voicing my opinion and my concerns. Even a non-attorney rep should see the obvious problem here, no?
ReplyDeleteNo one is arguing that non-attorney reps should not be allowed to "practice" before the SSA or VA. A family member or other party should be able to assist individuals. However, that person should not be eligible for direct payment unless they are held to appropriate standards. Eliminate the direct payment and you eliminate the marketing scams and misrepresentation (and underrepresentation).
ReplyDeleteIt is nonsense to assert that eliminating direct payment will eliminate marketing scams, misrepresentation, and underrepresentation. Nonsense. The same scams and misrepresentations existed BEFORE direct payment. What is Allsup? All that has changed is that (1) attorneys have changed hats to non-attorneys to bypass State-bar ethics rules (Very clever! Drop the law license and acquire the license to lie!) and (2) there are more non-attorneys chasing fees.
ReplyDeleteAre there really attorneys who have allowed their licenses to expire just so they can avoid regulation by the State Bar? I'm having a hard time swallowing that, but maybe I'm naive.
ReplyDeleteNow if an attorney was disbarred for other reasons, and chose to continue practicing SS cases as a non-attorney, that I could see.
No, the attorney does not let the license expire. The attorney just stops practicing law. The attorney determines that he/she can make more money under the non-attorney hat. The law license sits on a shelf. It is not used to conduct the new non-attorney business. It is silly to talk about the law license expiring. All that the attorney needs to do is stop practicing law, but instead start running a non-attorney business. Whether the attorney still has a law license is irrelevant. The law license means nothing. Unless the attorney is doing business as an attorney, the law license is irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteEliminate fees to non-attorneys. If one has to be an attorney to get a fee then no one can argue that state bar rules don't apply to those getting paid. The referral fees, embarrassing television ads, and non-compliance with rules of professional conduct need to stop. We need to form a new group, because we know NOSSCR won't be a mouth piece for any of the neccessary change and regulation.
ReplyDelete"Eliminate fees for non-attorneys." In your dreams. As far as State-bar rules, the Agency has just announced (12/23/11) that attorneys could no longer use State-bar rules as a shield in SSA proceedings. So the notion that somehow the Agency wants State-bar-rule protections for claimants has no basis in reality. None. The Agency wants only those protections for claimants that it provides. It is also naive at best to believe in this political climate that claimants' attorneys have any chance of changing the law in their favor. OK, it is not even naive. It is delusional. Anyone who thinks that the law will be changed to help attorney reps has no understanding of reality. None.
ReplyDeleteGreat post from someone who clearly is not an attorney! http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011-12-23/pdf/2011-32923.pdf
ReplyDeleteCopy in that link. The discussion actually cites the ABA model rules (for attorneys) and notes that state bar rules may be more restrictive than SSA regulations. It does say that in the event that a state bar rule is less restrictive, the SSA regulation prevails. If you were an attorney you would know that this was a given as Federal regulations preempt State regulations.
I was stating that non-attorney's are not regulated by local state bar rules. I'm suggesting more regulation, not less regulation. Stop the reported practice of paying claimant's 50 dollars a head to bring their friends to the office to get on SSI! Stop misleading advertising! Stop direct solicitation of represented claimants! Stop asking me to appeal your claim in Federal Court because your non-attorney representative (that can't practice in Federal Court) botched the claim at the Administrative Level and left no ground for appeal!!!!!!!
A typical attorney who does not understand what happened on 12/23/11 and who does not understand English. Prior to 12/23/11, the Agency respected State-bar rules regarding the submission of adverse evidence. On 12/23/11, the Agency said that nothing in a State-bar rule can justify not submitting adverse evidence. What we have here is a typical attorney who will find him- or herself in the OGC sanction system on 1/23/12 because he or she does not understand the basics. What we have here is an attorney boasting about the superiority of attorney legal analysis who does not understand something extraordinarily basic. If SSA were throwing out incompetent reps, it would throw out such reps who do not understand the basics.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the non-attorney arguments, the non-attorney should be glad they are not allowed to participate in adversarial proceedings.
ReplyDeleteThe more a purported attorney whines about non-attorneys only and not about poor representation generally, the attorney undermines his or her own credibility. Any honest and competent representatives knows that there are competent and incompetent attorney representative and competent and incompetent non-attorney representatives. The more a purported attorney boasts about his or her legal skill, the more we know that that purported attorney went to Southeast Nowhere State Night Law School. Not a good attorney at all. Could not compete in the real legal world and is getting his or her lunch eaten by a bunch of high-school-educated non-attorneys. Schooled by the uneducated. Now the attorney who cannot compete wants protection from the non-attorneys!
ReplyDelete