A recent Orange Is The New Black episode featured a misleading segment touching on Supplemental Security Income for children. I've been around long enough to know that it was never easy to get a child on benefits due to Attention Deficit Disorder-Hyperactivity (ADHD). It's now impossible. Sure, there are children with ADHD who get on benefits now but they're not getting on due to ADHD. They're getting on due to other problems.
Most SSI reps dealing daily with the parent--rarely parents--would take issue with this article. Generational SSI is rampant; plenty of ADD kids/adults still on the roles; parents appeal for healthy children in CDR cases to keep the money coming. Major reform has been needed for years. One kid gets on--lets try for the others. That coaching, crazy money, fraud was all too true.
Our firm, like many others, does not accept children's cases. The grant rate is just too low. In our area, I know of only one practitioner who takes child's cases on a regular basis.
If there still a lot of "crazy check" cases out there, the folks who represent claimants are certainly not aware of them. Lawyers struggling to make a living in this business would certainly not miss a chance to increase their revenue if those cases had a reasonable chance of being granted.
Here at a large urban SSA office we have been seeing quickly increasing numbers of rep cases for SSI including increases in childhood cases. Children are being approved everyday and not just for obvious ailments.
This must be yet another instance of SSDI/SSI having absolutely no consistency in judgments. I used to take a fair number of child SSI cases until it was made almost impossible for ADHD cases to be approved. At this time, I am apparently one of the few attorneys in at least a 50 mile radius in Western NC who will accept child SSI cases--but I am VERY selective. I haven't lost one of these cases for a few years, BUT ADHD is often only an accompanying impairment along with very severe emotional/cognitive impairments. Are those of you in urban SSA offices actually seeing cases approved? I also see the situation that 11:43 describes, but I don't accept them--it's too hard to win cases.
The biggest problem I see in the entire SSDI/SSI system is the insane inconsistency within the system. I tell new clients that a bigger factor than the contents of their medical records is which ALJ will eventually be assigned to their case.
This is 3:05 again. Are the statistics hiding other accompanying severe impairments. Just because ADHD is the principle diagnosis does not mean that the child claimant has no other problems. Usually, my cases are won because of severe autism spectrum impairments, severe intellectual impairments besides merely ADHD, or other problems.
Again, I suspect there is incredible inconsistency within the system; there are several ALJs before whom I regularly appear who don't seem to have consistent standards for disability determination--other than perhaps watching the percentage of approvals they make so they don't get accused of being an "outlier." Of course, only high approval "outliers" have anything to fear--I've never heard of a 15-20 percenter being taken to task.
7:54: I can't imagine that those awards are solely based on ADHD. From my experience ADHD alone will never win disability - "bad kid syndrome" as one ALJ described it to me. However, almost all child SSI claims I have won with other impairments almost always have a secondary dx of ADHD contained in the file.
Just curious as to where you THINK you see the information that "ADHD is one of the largest group of recipients - and one of the largest group of new awards for SSI each year."
The link you posted says nothing of the sort. ADHD is not one of the top 4 mental disorders for which children receive benefits. It is not (in descending order)a Developmental disorder, Childhood and adolescent disorder not elsewhere classified, Autistic disorder, Intellectual disability, or a Mood disorder. ADHD is classified by SSA under listing 112.11 which puts it along with 6 other classified mental disorders in the group "other mental disorders," with the six disorders combined accounting for 2.9% of childhood mental disabilities approved by SSA.
From the responses which have been posted, it appears that there is not an overly large number of child SSI cases being paid, since very few of us will accept representation. It appears that the SSA employees posting are just philosophically opposed to the fact that child SSI exists.
Before I retired three years ago there was already an impetus to diagnose children with bilpolar disorder instead oif ADHD, so anything regarding ADHD is now going to be masked by changes in diagnostic protocols.
Possibly the lawyers are not seeing these cases because they have already been allowed at the initial levels. During hearings ..DHO..most kids that are represented are represented by legal aid..when I was doing hearings.. A child with ADHD diagnosis is more likely to be continued than one who had a heart transplant or cancer.
I see more requests for assistance in CDRs than initial claims for minor children at myfirm. And the successful ADHD cases I have seen approved at initial are those with significant medical intervention (therapy, meds) coupled with behavioral interventions at school.
Most SSI reps dealing daily with the parent--rarely parents--would take issue with this article. Generational SSI is rampant; plenty of ADD kids/adults still on the roles; parents appeal for healthy children in CDR cases to keep the money coming. Major reform has been needed for years. One kid gets on--lets try for the others. That coaching, crazy money, fraud was all too true.
ReplyDelete@11:43 am
ReplyDeleteOur firm, like many others, does not accept children's cases. The grant rate is just too low. In our area, I know of only one practitioner who takes child's cases on a regular basis.
If there still a lot of "crazy check" cases out there, the folks who represent claimants are certainly not aware of them. Lawyers struggling to make a living in this business would certainly not miss a chance to increase their revenue if those cases had a reasonable chance of being granted.
Here at a large urban SSA office we have been seeing quickly increasing numbers of rep cases for SSI including increases in childhood cases. Children are being approved everyday and not just for obvious ailments.
ReplyDeleteThis must be yet another instance of SSDI/SSI having absolutely no consistency in judgments. I used to take a fair number of child SSI cases until it was made almost impossible for ADHD cases to be approved. At this time, I am apparently one of the few attorneys in at least a 50 mile radius in Western NC who will accept child SSI cases--but I am VERY selective. I haven't lost one of these cases for a few years, BUT ADHD is often only an accompanying impairment along with very severe emotional/cognitive impairments. Are those of you in urban SSA offices actually seeing cases approved? I also see the situation that 11:43 describes, but I don't accept them--it's too hard to win cases.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest problem I see in the entire SSDI/SSI system is the insane inconsistency within the system. I tell new clients that a bigger factor than the contents of their medical records is which ALJ will eventually be assigned to their case.
Oh - contrar - Mr. Hall
ReplyDeletecheck the SSA data:
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/ssi_asr/2013/sect04.html#table21
ADHD is one of the largest group of recipients - and one of the largest group of new awards for SSI each year.
This is 3:05 again. Are the statistics hiding other accompanying severe impairments. Just because ADHD is the principle diagnosis does not mean that the child claimant has no other problems. Usually, my cases are won because of severe autism spectrum impairments, severe intellectual impairments besides merely ADHD, or other problems.
ReplyDeleteAgain, I suspect there is incredible inconsistency within the system; there are several ALJs before whom I regularly appear who don't seem to have consistent standards for disability determination--other than perhaps watching the percentage of approvals they make so they don't get accused of being an "outlier." Of course, only high approval "outliers" have anything to fear--I've never heard of a 15-20 percenter being taken to task.
7:54: I can't imagine that those awards are solely based on ADHD. From my experience ADHD alone will never win disability - "bad kid syndrome" as one ALJ described it to me. However, almost all child SSI claims I have won with other impairments almost always have a secondary dx of ADHD contained in the file.
ReplyDelete@7:54 PM
ReplyDeleteJust curious as to where you THINK you see the information that "ADHD is one of the largest group of recipients - and one of the largest group of new awards for SSI each year."
The link you posted says nothing of the sort. ADHD is not one of the top 4 mental disorders for which children receive benefits. It is not (in descending order)a Developmental disorder, Childhood and adolescent disorder not elsewhere classified, Autistic disorder, Intellectual disability, or a Mood disorder. ADHD is classified by SSA under listing 112.11 which puts it along with 6 other classified mental disorders in the group "other mental disorders," with the six disorders combined accounting for 2.9% of childhood mental disabilities approved by SSA.
Any normal SSA office would have told that mother to leave with her unruly child and then taken the application by phone.
ReplyDeleteAnd the amount of money the mother thought she would get was lower than any recent federal benefit rate.
But these kinds of claims are still filed, often. Maybe SSA is getting better at denying them.
From the responses which have been posted, it appears that there is not an overly large number of child SSI cases being paid, since very few of us will accept representation. It appears that the SSA employees posting are just philosophically opposed to the fact that child SSI exists.
ReplyDeleteI work for the agency and I am of the belief child "cash" should end. I have no issue with providing medical care and tutoring but no cash!
DeleteBefore I retired three years ago there was already an impetus to diagnose children with bilpolar disorder instead oif ADHD, so anything regarding ADHD is now going to be masked by changes in diagnostic protocols.
ReplyDeletePossibly the lawyers are not seeing these cases because they have already been allowed at the initial levels. During hearings ..DHO..most kids that are represented are represented by legal aid..when I was doing hearings.. A child with ADHD diagnosis is more likely to be continued than one who had a heart transplant or cancer.
ReplyDeleteI see more requests for assistance in CDRs than initial claims for minor children at myfirm. And the successful ADHD cases I have seen approved at initial are those with significant medical intervention (therapy, meds) coupled with behavioral interventions at school.
ReplyDelete