Social Security's Office of Inspector General (OIG) did a study on collection of overpayments through long term repayment plans. Social Security deducts amounts from current benefits to repay the debt. The amount of the deduction depends upon the claimant's income. OIG found that some claimants were so poor that their monthly repayment amount wereso low that they would die before their overpayments were recouped. OIG's response: Stop worrying about whether the claimants have enough money to live on; just recoup more each month. Social Security's response is that they agree. They want to go to collecting at least 10% of monthly benefits without regard to whether this leaves the claimant with enough money to live on. They're not sure if they can just change their regulations or whether they need new legislation.
And by the way, many, perhaps most, of these overpayments are due to mistakes made by the Social Security Administration. Few are due to fraud.
Most of the big ones I have seen are the fault of the claimants--working and not reporting it. Maybe earning just over SGA and dropping below later but not reporting it and ending up with a $40-80K overpayment. At $50 a month, they will never repay it.
ReplyDeleteSSA recognized in its comments that more aggressive collection could leave some people with insufficient income for basic necessities, and that collecting more in that situation would run counter to the purposes of the Social Security Act. However, SSA then indicated it was pursuing a change to a minimum collection of 10% instead of $10 with no mention of exception for when it would leave people without income for basic necessities. Does that mean SSA is making a proposal that would fail to serve the purposes of the Social Security Act? I hope SSA and OIG clarifies their statements. It would be troubling if either organization lost sight of the main purpose of the Social Security Act.
ReplyDeleteI do not think most overpayments result from either fraud or SSA error. If someone is ceased they can get benefit continuation up through the ALJ level. That alone could result in over two years of overpayment. Apart from the guy in the report earning over $7000 a month and paying $20 a month towards the overpayment, efforts to dun more people who have returned to work for a higher level of re- payment would result in them quitting work and having to put them back on under the expedited re-in statement provisions. Or getting divorced if marriage is what led to SSI ineligibility.
ReplyDeleteCharles, I would like to know what statistics you have to back up this claim - "And by the way, many, perhaps most, of these overpayments are due to mistakes made by the Social Security Administration. Few are due to fraud." While I agree with the fraud statement, the overpayments are overwhelmingly the fault of the Claimant. Most often, especially in the SSI world, income is not reported timely and/or accurately.
ReplyDeleteWhenever I see 10%, my BS detector immediately goes off. 10% is just a convenient figure pulled out of thin air or from where the sun don't shine. It has no basis in reality; it's just easy math.
ReplyDeleteyou're being funny with your language, Charles:
ReplyDeleteThere's a lot of space between "clearly SSA's fault" and "claimant committing fraud," so much so that in my office, at least, this middle scenario encompasses a very large majority of all overpayment claims.
Not reporting income is one of the biggest reasons for our overpayments, yet I've never seen one of these cases pursued/labeled as "fraud," yet it's clearly not SSA's fault and...well, the claimant should have reported their income.
As a former CR, the majority of overpayments were due to Claimant reporting failures. I did see some overpayments based on data entry, but SSA only does a little to inform people that they HAVE to report income changes. More forceful language needs to be used to get the point across that if you go back to work on disability or if you earn more on your early retirement, then SSA is coming to take back that money like the IRS!
ReplyDeleteDont like it, dont apply. Be responsible for your actions.
Top 5 reasons for overpayments: http://oig.ssa.gov/newsroom/blog/july9-top-5-reasons-for-overpayments and the full report http://oig.ssa.gov/sites/default/files/audit/full/pdf/A-01-14-24114.pdf
ReplyDeleteBut here is the thing. For 4 of the 5 of these, there's the possibility of everything from beneficiary acting perfectly and SSA screwing up to outright fraud.
With work-related income, there are some people who conceal earnings. There are some people who see that FICA taxes are being taken out of their checks and honestly believe that SSA therefore knows they're working and can adjust their benefits (which is naive, but not necessary malicious...it WOULD be good if SSA could do this). There are people who report promptly and then SSA doesn't look at the report for 6 months. There are people who report a month later than they should. Or they report monthly for 6 months and get sick of going in each month and the 7th month the earnings are a bit different so averaging either makes them a little overpaid. There are also a lot of people underpaid because they don't promptly report that they lost a job or their earnings went down, or they do report and SSA takes months to change it. And try fighting with SSA to get that underpayment back--it takes a lot of time and diligence and minutes on your phone and going in to the office. Not surprisingly, people who get disability benefits are often too sick or confused or poor to be very effective advocates.
Same thing with incarceration. Is calling SSA how you'd use your one phone call from jail?
If it was, would the COs let you stay on hold for half an hour until you could report your change in living situation? At what point do you even know you'll be there a full calendar month?
With death, part of it is situations like the person who gets their direct deposit on the 3rd but died on the 1st or 2nd. SSA figures this out within a couple weeks, on average, and recoups the money, but it's still an overpayment. Even if the grieving widow calls SSA while the body's still cooling, getting all the parts to work together (call center, payment center, treasury, bank) to stop a payment takes at least a few days.
And the CDR issue, which is about 1/4 of overpayments, really shouldn't be considered an overpayment at all. People have the right to seek continuing benefits while they go through the CDR process (including appeals). It's right in the law. How can getting benefits guaranteed by law be an overpayment? Even the folks who eventually get terminated through a CDR (which is a tiny percentage of people getting benefits) tend not to be in very good health. A huge chunk of them end up reapplying and getting back on disability benefits in a couple years. It's not like most of them are super healthy and have such tremendous earnings capacity.
This is one of the reasons I'm hesitant to encourage anyone to enter into the Ticket to Work program. I've seen too many people try at "Good Faith" work attempts, and fail, only to be punished by the system later on because they didn't fully understand how it works financially speaking in both the short term and long term.
ReplyDeleteOr maybe they were incarcerated but benefits are not suspended until they have been there awhile. Or someone gave them a broken down car. Or they tried to call but gave up after being on hold for a long while but more often it takes awhile for them to contact employers to verify income. Or te income varies from month to month...it is not all willful failure to report
ReplyDelete@ 2:08
ReplyDeleteRight, and that's why we would find prong one of a waiver action met in those situations. But it's that pesky prong two that gets them (most) every time. In the end, not being to blame only lets you get to the part where we see whether you can afford to pay it back. Because in the end, that's what an overpayment is--you received money you weren't entitled to. And as long as you can afford to pay it back or it doesn't offend equity and good conscience or whatever the language is, we're going to make you pay it back.
Who and where does one ask for underpayment? Going to local offices or making phone calls so far hasn't helped.
ReplyDeleteHere's a thought. Fix the stupid law in order to "ENCOURAGE" them to try to work. Let them keep more before you make adjustments, even if on SSI! Make it easier and cheaper to administer, while encouraging work attempts. If you want them to "Return to Work," (Senators Lankford, Cotton, etc.) you have to give them more carrots, less stick. WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT FOR SOME "INTELLIGENT" PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND? They only want to use the stick without ever allowing the carrot! Does allowing them to work more COST SSA anything? No. They're actually paying in to SSA through FICA!
ReplyDelete@7:34 Make a nuisance of yourself. Call repeatedly, send letters repeatedly, ask to speak to managers, complain when your calls and letters aren't answered, ask your congressperson to inquire, keep timely appealing. Save copies of everything. Keep a log of when you called, who you talked to, and what they said. They will eventually answer.
ReplyDelete@ 7:44
ReplyDeletedo the congressional inquiry. Senator or US House Rep, just send their office an email or letter and they will ask about you. In my office at least, we take very seriously answering Congressional Inquiries quickly and resolving their issues correctly, which doesn't always please the caller/constituent if they are mistaken. So does our Regional management.
Once you sign that release the Congressional office staffer can call and request updates and we get in hot water really quickly if we don't respond and act promptly. And elected officials and their staffs are used to getting what they want and quickly, so they add plenty of their own pressure and have no problem throwing their weight around.
7:44 and 9:04, Just to let to let you know, I've done all this. They, the congress member's office via internet and phone calls and they keep promising to contact me and nothing. Something completely wrong here with the Congress member's office not contacting me back. My daughter too,has tried and nothing. Anyone in the SSA that handles this, underpayment issue. MAYBE since I'n CA. it is the problem. Just want some help with the SSA' own paperwork and it's mistake. Thanks for your help though. That's more than I have gotten from anyone here or even on calls to D.C.
ReplyDelete7:44 & 9:04, I read again your response and "got it" on congressional inquiries. Thank you very very much!
ReplyDeleteI never worked one thing faster because of a Congressional Inquiry, ever.
ReplyDelete7:44 & 9:04. I emailed the congress person again and still have not heard anything. Not surprised at this anymore and I do believe that the inquiry was done already back in 2014 and the above results with the SSA blowing me off. Got in contact with attorneys who shifted me from one to the 2nd and the 3rd who said I had to do A REVIEW OF RECONSIDERATION. I'd have to go 20 miles away to file this and Wow, doing that is all just too much for me to do. JUST LOOKING at the on line review paperwork gives me great stress, can't make heads or tails out of it. I'm now so far, back to square one. Still need help on the years of underpayments and don't know what else to do. Can and attorney that files for one's SSA disability, also do a review of reconsideration?
ReplyDeleteThank you!