Depends on what you mean by reopen. I see the reopening being phased in gradually. Social distancing is a must at field offices and OHOs alike. No more packed waiting rooms. Set a capacity limit for the room and make everyone wait in vehicles until space clears out. ALJs may need to stagger hearing times to avoid crowded OHO lobbies. Regardless of what Republicans want, this isn't going away soon.
Curious as to what the union is saying needs to be in place for workers to be considered safe now. There is a very fine line between essential and expendable.
When it's safe to start gathering employees who don't reside together in a building without exposing them to a 10%+ risk of dying or carrying that risk home to their relatives. And even when that day arrives, which will require testing on-par with other developed nations (as opposed to our current rate of testing more akin to that of third-world countries), I don't think things should be run the way they were before all this started. At the very least, the waiting rooms will need to be kept less full, and staff who can do their jobs from home full-time should probably continue to be kept at home until (proven) effective treatments and/or vaccines are available.
As for the reality, the Commissioner will probably force everyone back to the office full-time as soon as the orange one occupying the White House decides that actually having to try acting like an effective leader is just too damned hard for him. And, pathetic as it is, I think we've been within about an inch of that point for since mid-March.
@1:55 PM. No doubt they'll also tell us to maintain six feet of distance from each other (a distance the science says isn't even sufficient to prevent community spread), while placing us back in cubicles with chairs no more than 3-4 from each other. I'm sure they'll also tell us to use masks, hand sanitizer and other such supplies that they will of course not provide to us, and which we can, of course, not obtain due to persistent nationwide stock shortages, hoarding and price-gouging. And without a doubt the Commissioner himself, along with other upper management, will continue working at home until there's an effective vaccine on the market.
I don't think there's one set date. workers who can telework (senior attorneys, some PSC and Appeals Council staff, folks in the DDSs that are equipped to telework etc.) probably should stay home as long as possible.
Those who have lower risk factors or are tested and shown to have antibodies could go in occasionally in small numbers to deal with documents that are faxed or mailed and allow the teleworking staff to have stuff to work on (scanning paper cases at OHOs and comparison point decisions for CDRs, for example).
Same with public-facing offices...they should be lightly staffed at first by those at low risk and only take appointments, possibly with a small number of walk-in hours set aside for people with truly urgent needs who don't have the tech savvy/money/wherewithal to make appointments (I am guessing this will be disproportionately SSI issues). I'd do M/W/F from 3-5pm so the offices could be cleaned well in the evenings.
Some parts of the country may be able to open their offices sooner than others. Some may have to close again shortly after reopening. A lot of it depends on how fast we can develop fast and reliable blood tests and nasal swabs in sufficient numbers for people to really know their statuses. With so many SSA employees and beneficiaries being older and/or having health problems I don't think they should rush to reopen but focus on improving what can be done remotely either online or by phone. There's a lot of room for improvement there.
The SSA employees who can do their job from home, should not be told to go back until there is a vaccine. I work in a payment center and I can do my job just as well from home as in the office. Why would I go back and risk my health and life every time I walk into the building , when I can work from the safety of my home? Why would SSA even consider asking teleworking employees to take such an unnecessary risk? People would almost certainly die if they force people back in there. I am not going to go back there and possibly get infected with COVID-19 just because Saul and Grace Kim don't like telework and/or don't trust SSA employees. I'll retire by phone first.
@1:03, does that mean if SSA stays closed for more than 2 years, we have to shut down the SSI program and after 4 years it has to stay closed altogether (unless there is fraud or similar fault)?
SSA should not reopen until there is a vaccine. However if SSA does reopen before that , employees over the age of 55 should be given the option of teleworking every day of the week.. This will help prevent a wave of retirements when SSA cannot afford to lose that much expertise and experience. And this will protect the older employees who are at highest risk from the coronavirus. Also this will reduce the workforce in the building, allowing social distancing between the employees who are in the office.
Not sure SSI folks or non tech savvy folks should be catered to. Does IRS do that? If you don't have a phone, can't one get an Obama phone? There is a need for submitting some documents but maybe that can be rethought as far as making appointments.
For what it’s worth, the centralized scheduling unit has already contacted our office about willingness to do phone hearings in July so it doesn’t sound like OHO has plans to reopen anytime soon. Interestingly, they asked the question as it related generally to all of our clients and not any specific case. When I responded that the decision was each individual client’s to make so I would need to know what cases she was referring to, the scheduler was taken aback by my response. I don’t think anyone at OHO cares about claimants or what they think. Claimants are just nameless faceless beings that serve as a means by which to make the numbers.
If will be interesting to see how much of the public will just deal with it and get what they need from the field office over the phone or online. The need for face to face contact is overrated. Social Security essential. Field Offices not so much.
Public will overwhelm the rural and urban offices. I'm curious how smaller offices and those with limited staff will handle teleworking. Work sharing resources, and teleworking is critical more than ever. Maybe this is a wake up call. The union an management both dropped the ball. Also the younger generations will now have to put on their adult pants and step up to the plate
4:04am When SSA Field Offices start actually responding to documents sent; when contacts with the FOs can be done via email with a timely response; and when the FOs stop being a "black hole" -- so that claimants can correspond and actually be told what is being done on their cases -- there will be less need for face-to-face interviews at the DO. As it is now, anything faxed or mailed into the Field Offices is not acknowledged and the claimant/beneficiary has no way to know if it was received or when to expect it to be worked on. There are deadlines which claimants/beneficiaries are held to, and sometimes the only way to ensure meeting the deadline is to go into the FOs. There are complicated cases which must be explained in person. SSA service by phone is correct only sometimes, and it can take an hour (or more) on the phone to reach a real-live person. SSA programs are complicated and can't be done by a trainee or even a computer. Until there are major improvements, claimants/beneficiaries must have a way to have in-person interviews.
Yeah, I had a similar call from the central scheduling unit asking about doing phone hearings in July. So this is not changing back anytime soon, apparently.
I have found phone hearings to be better than I expected, with only a few exceptions (I had one hearing during which we were disconnected 8 times!!).
It's too soon for people to keep saying "things will never be the same again"....There have been pandemics in the past, people. I'm sure during the spanish flu there were people worried we would never come back the same. Never is a really long time folks. Lets have some hope and perspective.
I've enjoyed seeing the emails from all the executives in the Ivory Tower at HQ...telling us how seamless the service has been to the public with 100% telework. Then POTUS unveils his plan strongly recommending telework for capable positions until Phase Three. It'll be curious to see if they try to pull staff back to HQ and require four days in the office again for "the greater good". They just don't want to walk back what they did in March.
8:34 PM "OBAMA phones" were (are?) cheap cells phonesthe poor could get. I had one for 3-4 months. I got lots of robo-calls, so I didn't use it much. Battery died after 3-4 hours...so, I left it off most of the time. Did I mention "cheap?" Obviously, no internet...
8:47 When Phase 3 comes, Saul will probably try to completely terminate telework again; zero days telework for the PC's TSC and FO, and also force the FO to remain open on Wednesday.Just as he did last November. And cut other areas back to 1 day telework per week or pay period.
That November decision to end telework and keep the FO open to the public on Wed, turned out to be terrible, both for the employees and the Agency. Backlogs grew, and then coronavirus put everyone at greater risk in the office. But Saul seems unable to even admit that he made a mistake, much less to learn from it.
Would think opening the local SSA offices would be first. The OHOs have adjusted to phone hearings. But some people need in-person services at the local SSA offices. Feel like August or September is a good goal just like reopening the schools.
@8:47 Can you share these emails or at least tell us where they are if they are on the internal network. I’ve heard multiple people cite this but I’ve never seen it and I’m an operations employee. I’d like to know what the results have been.
Not until they put someone competent in charge and treat the ALJ's with high remand rates the same as they treated the ALJ's with high approval rates.
ReplyDeleteDepends on what you mean by reopen. I see the reopening being phased in gradually. Social distancing is a must at field offices and OHOs alike. No more packed waiting rooms. Set a capacity limit for the room and make everyone wait in vehicles until space clears out. ALJs may need to stagger hearing times to avoid crowded OHO lobbies. Regardless of what Republicans want, this isn't going away soon.
ReplyDeleteCurious as to what the union is saying needs to be in place for workers to be considered safe now. There is a very fine line between essential and expendable.
ReplyDeleteThe reopening rules are covered in HALLEX I-2-9-40
ReplyDeleteI am not sure we will ever go back to the way we did things. I think the telephone hearing will now be an option you have to object to like the VTC.
ReplyDeleteWhen it's safe to start gathering employees who don't reside together in a building without exposing them to a 10%+ risk of dying or carrying that risk home to their relatives. And even when that day arrives, which will require testing on-par with other developed nations (as opposed to our current rate of testing more akin to that of third-world countries), I don't think things should be run the way they were before all this started. At the very least, the waiting rooms will need to be kept less full, and staff who can do their jobs from home full-time should probably continue to be kept at home until (proven) effective treatments and/or vaccines are available.
ReplyDeleteAs for the reality, the Commissioner will probably force everyone back to the office full-time as soon as the orange one occupying the White House decides that actually having to try acting like an effective leader is just too damned hard for him. And, pathetic as it is, I think we've been within about an inch of that point for since mid-March.
1:03 I see what you did there.
ReplyDeleteA1:03pm HALLEX I-2-9-40 sets out policy for reopening applications and has no relevance to reopening SSA offices in the time of COVID19.
ReplyDeleteGreat question. As an FO employee my anticipation is that Trump/Saul (there is no distance between the two) force us to reopen long before it is safe.
ReplyDelete1:54 wins the award for literalist of the year.
ReplyDelete@1:55 PM. No doubt they'll also tell us to maintain six feet of distance from each other (a distance the science says isn't even sufficient to prevent community spread), while placing us back in cubicles with chairs no more than 3-4 from each other. I'm sure they'll also tell us to use masks, hand sanitizer and other such supplies that they will of course not provide to us, and which we can, of course, not obtain due to persistent nationwide stock shortages, hoarding and price-gouging. And without a doubt the Commissioner himself, along with other upper management, will continue working at home until there's an effective vaccine on the market.
ReplyDeleteIs it true ALJs have been told phone hearings will continue through the end of May?
ReplyDeleteI don't think there's one set date. workers who can telework (senior attorneys, some PSC and Appeals Council staff, folks in the DDSs that are equipped to telework etc.) probably should stay home as long as possible.
ReplyDeleteThose who have lower risk factors or are tested and shown to have antibodies could go in occasionally in small numbers to deal with documents that are faxed or mailed and allow the teleworking staff to have stuff to work on (scanning paper cases at OHOs and comparison point decisions for CDRs, for example).
Same with public-facing offices...they should be lightly staffed at first by those at low risk and only take appointments, possibly with a small number of walk-in hours set aside for people with truly urgent needs who don't have the tech savvy/money/wherewithal to make appointments (I am guessing this will be disproportionately SSI issues). I'd do M/W/F from 3-5pm so the offices could be cleaned well in the evenings.
Some parts of the country may be able to open their offices sooner than others. Some may have to close again shortly after reopening. A lot of it depends on how fast we can develop fast and reliable blood tests and nasal swabs in sufficient numbers for people to really know their statuses. With so many SSA employees and beneficiaries being older and/or having health problems I don't think they should rush to reopen but focus on improving what can be done remotely either online or by phone. There's a lot of room for improvement there.
ReplyDeleteThe SSA employees who can do their job from home, should not be told to go back until there is a vaccine.
I work in a payment center and I can do my job just as well from home as in the office. Why would I go back and risk my health and life every time I walk into the building , when I can work from the safety of my home? Why would SSA even consider asking teleworking employees to take such an unnecessary risk? People would almost certainly die if they force people back in there.
I am not going to go back there and possibly get infected with COVID-19 just because Saul and Grace Kim don't like telework and/or don't trust SSA employees. I'll retire by phone first.
@1:03, does that mean if SSA stays closed for more than 2 years, we have to shut down the SSI program and after 4 years it has to stay closed altogether (unless there is fraud or similar fault)?
ReplyDelete@1:03 & @8:27
ReplyDeleteThank you both for injecting a little levity. We all need that right now.
SSA should not reopen until there is a vaccine.
ReplyDeleteHowever if SSA does reopen before that , employees over the age of 55 should be given the option of teleworking every day of the week..
This will help prevent a wave of retirements when SSA cannot afford to lose that much expertise and experience. And this will protect the older employees who are at highest risk from the coronavirus.
Also this will reduce the workforce in the building, allowing social distancing between the employees who are in the office.
Not sure SSI folks or non tech savvy folks should be catered to. Does IRS do that?
ReplyDeleteIf you don't have a phone, can't one get an Obama phone?
There is a need for submitting some documents but maybe that can be rethought as far as making appointments.
For what it’s worth, the centralized scheduling unit has already contacted our office about willingness to do phone hearings in July so it doesn’t sound like OHO has plans to reopen anytime soon. Interestingly, they asked the question as it related generally to all of our clients and not any specific case. When I responded that the decision was each individual client’s to make so I would need to know what cases she was referring to, the scheduler was taken aback by my response. I don’t think anyone at OHO cares about claimants or what they think. Claimants are just nameless faceless beings that serve as a means by which to make the numbers.
ReplyDeleteIf will be interesting to see how much of the public will just deal with it and get what they need from the field office over the phone or online. The need for face to face contact is overrated. Social Security essential. Field Offices not so much.
ReplyDeleteyes, May.
ReplyDeleteSome OHOs are already changing June hearings to telephone hearings, such as the McAlester, OK OHO.
ReplyDeleteI demand that the offices open right away! I pay these people's salaries! Put them in space suits if needed! ;)
ReplyDeletePublic will overwhelm the rural and urban offices. I'm curious how smaller offices and those with limited staff will handle teleworking. Work sharing resources, and teleworking is critical more than ever.
ReplyDeleteMaybe this is a wake up call. The union an management both dropped the ball. Also the younger generations will now have to put on their adult pants and step up to the plate
4:04am When SSA Field Offices start actually responding to documents sent; when contacts with the FOs can be done via email with a timely response; and when the FOs stop being a "black hole" -- so that claimants can correspond and actually be told what is being done on their cases -- there will be less need for face-to-face interviews at the DO. As it is now, anything faxed or mailed into the Field Offices is not acknowledged and the claimant/beneficiary has no way to know if it was received or when to expect it to be worked on. There are deadlines which claimants/beneficiaries are held to, and sometimes the only way to ensure meeting the deadline is to go into the FOs. There are complicated cases which must be explained in person. SSA service by phone is correct only sometimes, and it can take an hour (or more) on the phone to reach a real-live person. SSA programs are complicated and can't be done by a trainee or even a computer. Until there are major improvements, claimants/beneficiaries must have a way to have in-person interviews.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I had a similar call from the central scheduling unit asking about doing phone hearings in July. So this is not changing back anytime soon, apparently.
ReplyDeleteI have found phone hearings to be better than I expected, with only a few exceptions (I had one hearing during which we were disconnected 8 times!!).
It's too soon for people to keep saying "things will never be the same again"....There have been pandemics in the past, people. I'm sure during the spanish flu there were people worried we would never come back the same. Never is a really long time folks. Lets have some hope and perspective.
Only when the scientists and doctors say it is safe to reopen. Trump should never be trusted on this.
ReplyDeleteWhat the F-ing hell is an Obama phone?
ReplyDeleteI've enjoyed seeing the emails from all the executives in the Ivory Tower at HQ...telling us how seamless the service has been to the public with 100% telework. Then POTUS unveils his plan strongly recommending telework for capable positions until Phase Three. It'll be curious to see if they try to pull staff back to HQ and require four days in the office again for "the greater good". They just don't want to walk back what they did in March.
ReplyDelete8:34 PM "OBAMA phones" were (are?) cheap cells phonesthe poor could get. I had one for 3-4 months. I got lots of robo-calls, so I didn't use it much. Battery died after 3-4 hours...so, I left it off most of the time. Did I mention "cheap?" Obviously, no internet...
ReplyDelete8:47 When Phase 3 comes, Saul will probably try to completely terminate telework again; zero days telework for the PC's TSC and FO, and also force the FO to remain open on Wednesday.Just as he did last November. And cut other areas back to 1 day telework per week or pay period.
ReplyDeleteThat November decision to end telework and keep the FO open to the public on Wed, turned out to be terrible, both for the employees and the Agency. Backlogs grew, and then coronavirus put everyone at greater risk in the office. But Saul seems unable to even admit that he made a mistake, much less to learn from it.
When it's safe, and then it may be different.
ReplyDeleteWould think opening the local SSA offices would be first. The OHOs have adjusted to phone hearings. But some people need in-person services at the local SSA offices. Feel like August or September is a good goal just like reopening the schools.
ReplyDelete@8:47 Can you share these emails or at least tell us where they are if they are on the internal network. I’ve heard multiple people cite this but I’ve never seen it and I’m an operations employee. I’d like to know what the results have been.
ReplyDeleteWas just advised by CSU that we will be doing phone hearings only through "at least" August.
ReplyDelete