SSA grossly underestimates the burden that responding to SSA-454-BK places on claimants and the public when it suggests the average burden is 60 minutes. [These estimates are required by the Paperwork Reduction Act.] Anecdotally, we believe that if you consider the complete time burden spent by the claimant and third parties to review SSA-454-BK, collect documentation, complete and transmit this form, it would take an average of 15-20 hours. This would include:
- times spent by the claimant receiving and reviewing the letter;
- time spent by assisters (neighbors, family, community assisters and sometimes SSA claims representatives) helping the claimant understand the SSA-454-BK form, and the steps required to respond (particularly in cases where SSA knows the claimant has intellectual, cognitive, behavioral or language deficits);
- time spent to collect information or documentation needed to complete the form;
- time spent by medical, behavioral health, and other providers furnishing documentation and or fielding specific questions necessary to complete the form;
- time spent securing assistance from advocates or lawyers;
- time spent to actually complete form;
- and the time required to transmit the SSA-454-BK to SSA. ...
Just completing the SSA-454-BK form is burdensome in and of itself. It is 15 pages long and requires multiple stamps to be mailed back to SSA. It requires beneficiaries to write short essays in response to questions, report all the medication they take and all of the medical treatment and providers they attend, and all of their daily activities. For adults and children with disabilities, this is usually a huge amount of information. ...
We recommend SSA take steps to reduce the burden on claimants by truncating and streamlining the SSA-454-BK. Specific consideration should be paid to the utility to each piece of information solicited as well as the burden it places on the claimant. Although detailed medical information is no doubt useful to evaluating ongoing disability claims, some of this information is not absolutely necessary to adjudicating the claim but may place a large burden on the responder. ...
On the whole, I find Social Security's forms to be terribly drafted. They are usually poorly organized, too long, confusing and ask for more information than is needed. They seem to be created with little input from the Social Security employees who have to read the forms and with zero regard for the public which has to struggle with the forms. I am glad that CCD is giving some much-needed attention to this dark corner at Social Security.
Forms such as this are preemptive. They over ask in order to avoid underasking, figuring more is better than less, for a lot of reasons. Avoiding multiple contacts (truly understandable, make the most of the contact as you can but bet you that doesn't really work...), input from oversight and quality review sections on deficiencies found in past versions, and law and regulation. One form for all kinds of disabilities rather than focused forms because that will be a disaster for lots of other reasons. Build a one-size fits all versus specialized and the effort level gets huge.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, folks like Charles should take a crack at it, they see folks in all shapes and sizes, see if there is a simpler way that they'd agree does what it needs to?
15 to 20 hours! hhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahha....breath....hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
ReplyDeleteC'mon man
As an SSA FO employee, I agree that the form is burdensome and not particularly easy to complete. However, the notion that it takes an average of 15-20 hours is complete nonsense.
ReplyDeleteNext they should complain about the 1696 form. Why it has to be 6 pages is beyond me. It went from 1 page to 6 pages.
ReplyDeleteAdd badly written to “poorly organized, too long, confusing” and you describe most of our letters - write them in plain English and you would eliminate thousands, if not millions of GI and #800 calls each year.
ReplyDeleteI shake my head when I review cases and SSA actually tells claimants to NOT fill out a form about their past work if they had more than one job.
ReplyDelete@ 2:50. Why would SSA tell claimants' that? I'm curious? Is it that they already have the information, or is they are trying to deter the claimant's from finishing the form as directed for some reason?
ReplyDeleteThe disability report, form 3368, asks for specifics on a job, but only if there was one job. If there is more than one job, and DDS needs specific information about each job, there is another form 3369 for claimants to complete with information regarding each job in the past 15 years. So the job specifics on the 3368 aren't to be completed (says so right on the form) if there are more than one job in last 15 years.
ReplyDeleteDDS generally uses an expedited process on people under 50 and do not see the need for past work to be explained, hence the form is not filled out. There are places for more than one job to be inserted, b/t/w. the problem is when people age gpoing through the process and step 4 becomes vital. They should have the form or a work histpory report filled in , [by the claimant so no agency time is expended] for all claimants as of age 46, to be safe as cases go to OHO, the AC and USDC!
ReplyDeleteThe 454 is also infamous for the complaint "I never received it". I know that is often synonymous with having thrown it out or misplaced it, but when so many call in about it, that is a service issue. Whether it is USPS not delivering it or SSA print office (contractor) not getting it out, that is a big problem.
ReplyDelete5:49. The expedited process is only for denials so an attempt for a fully complete 3369 is needed in almost all cases. This includes many who meet a Listing now but vocational is a factor due to onset issues . Another problem is that the information asked for on the 3369 does not include much of what is needed
ReplyDeleteWow imagine the fee petition possibilities! 20 hours to complete one form for your client. Brilliant!
ReplyDeleteAre they doing CDRs during covid? How does that work when seeing a doctor was difficult for a year? Same with specialists and therapists. Chiropractors, too (I know, not considered medical source). Not to mention co-pays, medicines (some, no longer paid for/totally unaffordable on Medicare) no longer taken (didn't work, anyway). Just thinking about this is giving me anxiety!
ReplyDeleteto 1:30
ReplyDeleteUh. No.
First, the groups discussing the time it takes are Legal Services and non-profits that don't charge fees so they for;t file fee petitions in the usual case.
Second, the overwhelming number of cases where fees are based on approved fee agreement so no fee petitions are filed anyway.
Third, in those cases where fee petitions are filed for whatever reason, the time spent is listed but under SS Rules the fee is not based just on the time spent but what is also considered is the result achieved and the agreement of the parties.
There is an incredible amount of misunderstanding within the SSA as to how attorneys are paid. A few examples are this case but also the belief that until the attorney files a fee petition, the claimant cannot be paid. This leads to clients complaining to attorneys for holding up their fee by not filing the fee petition, even where none is required. And, as happened to me last week, the payment center advising that they would release the withheld funds to the claimant because we had not filed a fee petition, even though they had not gotten around to issuing an award letter and in such cases, no fee petition could have been filed.
Tim,
ReplyDeleteMost offices were only sending like one or two CDRs a week to DDS, so very few. However, management is in process of revising it to majorly up CDR processing allocations at some point in the next few weeks (I suspect it will happen no later than early November).
As far as the existing SSA-454 form is concerned, most claimants just skip over the parts they don't want to answer or don't feel they can answer.
CCD probably wants the agency to send out a CDR form that consists of a stick figure drawing with instructions to "circle what hurts".
The truth of the matter is I suspect that the forms are drafted in the manner they are is an attempt to catch inconsistencies in claimant answers. For instance, if a claimant alleges as part of their disabling conditions that they can't walk or stand for very long, then in the daily activities section they check "No" to having problems walking or standing. Or, alleging that they can't be around people, but in daily activities allege no problems being around people.