I understand that Social Security has indefinitely suspended advanced leave. This is advanced leave, not advance leave. It’s leave granted in excess of what has already been earned that is to be made up later. Let’s say you have worked at the agency for a few years and are injured in a car wreck. You need to be out of work longer than the amount of sick and annual leave you’ve earned so far. I guess you now have to go on leave without pay rather than being advanced some leave to help you over a rough stretch. This directive doesn’t put some limit on advanced leave. It just summarily ends it. Of course, there was no negotiation with the employee unions over this. I’m sure they’ll sue.
41 comments:
Don't get cancer or have a baby, says the pro-family party.
They are going to train people (not as well as they could, but still an investment of resources) and then lose them over this. What a waste.
Hi Frank,
The tone of the email you forced HR to send out was unnecessarily heartless. Also, these pretzels are making me thirsty!!
Looking forward to Frank getting the Rudy Giuliani treatment once Trump is out.
Just to give you an idea how bad it is at the TSC. They took away our alternative work schedules where we could work an hour more to have a day off every two weeks. They took away our telework. They took away our flextime where we could arrive within a half hour. They took away our ability to earn credit where we could work more to get more leave. Then this comes down. Due to lack of telework which some people were hired during the pandemic being told it was a telework job, people are now having to take more time off becuase of it. If you have child care issues due to lack of telework and you have a longer commute you might take more time off. Now this comes down. Situations happen. Some people have chronic issues and now RAs are harder to get. Bereavement if unexpected happenned falls under this if you don’t have enough time. Sometimes when it rains it pours. TSC employees have low morale (imho) and this is just a kick in the gut. We already lost a lot of people due to everything and they just keep telling us that its because of public need.
Probably illegal based on the contract, not that that matters. They should have eliminated religious compensation since credit hours can work for that. But of course they made it more liberal, which places on burden on management to track and control.
Revoking telework was also illegal. They did that too. They don’t care about the law
As an ssa employee who ties the line with leave. I've never known that I could go in the negative. Also can you in the civilian sector? I get medical emergencies... I always assumed I would go on LWOP if I ran out...
This Agency has hated its employees for a very long time! You compare this Agency to other Federal Agencies its not even close.
LWOP also burdens you, its moves your WIGi date. As long as we have Frank, we will be working for the private sector not serving the American Public. Kind reminder: our pay is NOT comparable to the private sector thats why we get some bonuses like OT, credit or advanced leave. The private sector is also reverting to telework because they realized folks are more productive. At this point, the private sector sounds better. I have friends working at the DOE, DOD ... not comparable, SSA is by far the worst today. Sad, because it didnt used to be.
Spoiler alert…SSA management lies
Why is management suspending indefinite leave if the goals are being met. My mistake was not reading the fine print of my loyalty pledge.
I am a disabled veteran who was just diagnosed with colon cancer on July 15, 2026. I need surgery on August 3 to remove a portion of my colon and time off to recover. I have been sick for two years and have used up all of my sick leave and the majority of my annual leave. I put my application for Advance Sick Leave in on the same day as my surgery was scheduled and got my denial today. It’s ironic that I have spent the better part of 11 years assisting others at OHO gain disability benefits, yet when I need assistance I am not eligible. How am I going to pay my bills through my recovery? How can I recover from colon cancer if I am homeless? I will put in for VLTA when I am completely out of leave, and use my FMLA to stay employed, however my mental health isn’t good, and I may need chemotherapy. I have no choice but to put in my medical retirement application and I have already put in a grievance with Rep Mark Takano. How sick is it to ask employees to help others and ignore their own health. This is telling employees, don’t get sick! Get back to work! Can’t pay your bills? Get back to work so you can feed yourself. Up until today, I still had faith in this agency, a social welfare agency, that I could stay and work until a normal retirement age. Not anymore. I am putting in my papers as soon as I can get all my documents together. These people are sick. They are evil.
This will all come home to roost when SSA hires again, it must to backfill the staff cuts. As with many states, insufficient qualified applicants will hinder future staff plans.
Some observations/questions (though largely rhetorical):
- How many so-called chiefs expressed their opinion against this policy change? (Granted it wouldn’t have made a difference. But still.)
- Florence has shown her true self-serving colors since the chaos first started when Dudek acted and hasn’t stopped. A lawyer and HR “leader” she has failed the law and all agency employees entrusted to her. Listening to her introduce Frank at every all-hands on prolonged ramblings makes me want to vomit. He has her do it because she’s a minority female.
- The policy change doesn’t support the repeated agency statements about the so- called glowing service improvements. If these are true, then the excuse in the email is BS. It’s to make more employees leave.
- The change also is because Frank doesn’t trust the managers whom he says he wants fewer layers between. Prior to the change, when a manager received such a request, we had to weigh the employee’s ability to pay any approved amount. This meant considering the ability and timeline to return to work at all and when. Someone with years before retirement who needs more time to recover from an injury had a greater likelihood of some approved amount than someone battling stage 4 cancer and able to retire soon, too. Repaying in the case of the latter is unlikely while the former is likely. Yes, employees with the most severe conditions may leave on disability, regardless.
- With the point above in mind, show us data, year over year for last five years, of how many unique employees requested advanced AL and SL, hours requested, management denials and approvals, and for approved advance leave, hours repaid and not repaid. You know you have it.
- Let’s also stop playing games. We all see other agency union contacts being cancelled. We know we are on the list. Get it over with and stop piece-mealing the pain. Advanced leave, then alternative work schedules, Flex Time.
- Lastly, the agency is busy trying to hire for positions created by the reassignment and DRP chaos (rather than putting people back). Good luck with that. Many offices are seeing offer denials because of no telework. Let’s add these others to the list. What could go wrong.
I am so sorry about what you are going through. Frank is a monster. At his first town hall he talked about taking care of people who are sick. How health comes first. Frank is a liar and truly evil being.
There are some employees that stay in the negative because they abuse this benefit.
There are some employees that have unexpected situations arise, and simply don’t have the leave to cover it.
There are others with chronic health conditions that will never be able to build up a healthy leave balance to pull from, but this benefit gives them an opportunity and flexibility to work that they might not get in the private sector.
Instead of following the law, honoring the existing contract, and perhaps taking a step back to fully evaluate the program to see what works and what doesn’t so that meaningful changes could be made, they pull this move that shows (as if there were any doubt) how little care or regard they have for their employees.
The statements essentially saying “we are doing this for the American people- they deserve better” while at the same time driving 14% of your staff to leave in one year, and also pulling a healthy chunk of the remaining staff from their regular duties of helping the public and forcing them to answer the 800 number with inadequate training just to try to achieve some magical answer rate number speaks volumes.
@10:49PM. Wishing you full remission and an easy recovery. I hope the Union is able to help. This is so unfair to you and others that are going through hard times and need that to stay affloat while trying to get healthy.
I always knew you could go in the hole with leave, but I’ve never done it.. That being said, the tone of the email was absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable. They just assume employees are trying to steal from and cheat the agency at every turn. I’ve always played by the rules, gotten great performance reviews, but as an attorney writer this horseshit organization won’t promote me and The only time I hear from mgmt is when they’re telling me I’m not working hard enough, I’m not qualified to be a judge and that I’m probably chiseling with regard to leave. pretty close to being done. I’ve worked in the legal field for over 20 years now I know shit management when I see it.
And this isn’t even in the top 100 horrible things SSA has done to its staff in the past 18 months. Do NOT under any circumstances accept a job at SSA or allow a loved one to do so. You/they WILL regret it. Welfare is less draining, and more financially advantageous than a majority of SSA jobs after accounting for transportation, parking and (god forbid you need it) childcare costs.
Contact your congressman and local news! Really sucks you are dealing with this! I blame the employees who “earn and burn” they do nothing for the agency and usually cause 80% of the strife in the office.
On a positive note they could change this tomorrow!
No, you will get AWOL is you run out.
LWOP is not a right and the agency only has to approve it in very limited circumstances like a worker's comp claim or FMLA. They will begin charging AWOL for absences whereby an employee has no leave. While AWOL is not discipline, it may lead to discipline and eventually termination.
I've never understood the leave debtor mentality. Zero sounds like a low enough number. We work in an agency with abundant leave offerings, 11 paid federal holidays, and for most, generous credit hour privileges. A little work on leave management will hurt no one. FMLA still exists for those with significant conditions. We still have paid maternity/paternity leave (very generous). While surely there are SOME better private sector time off benefits, I have no reason to think we don't have this part of the benefits package pretty darn good still. Now, on the pay front, there are some holes. From my seat, the worst kind of employee is the one that looks for every way to be away from work at all the worst times. We have a lot of those type. Last I checked, most good employees don't really care for that type, but still they exist. Perhaps this change will help tighten up the games just a bit.
18 months ?? try 15 years!
What about folks who have a difficult pregnancy and then have no options to support themselves? They have every intention to return when better, but need help short term? How about cancer patients who want to return when better? This advanced leave options are not for elective surgeries or situations. These could be life or death situations. We are in fact a social welfare agency. We can’t help our own? Even if people don’t “earn back the leave”, they have to pay it back with their last paycheck or retirement benefits. This administration can spend a billion dollars on a ballroom and billions on a war, yet we can’t front our employees a few thousand dollars of leave money to help them get back on their feet? Is our people’s suffering ok because the private sector decides they won’t support their employees? Are we just all Amazon employees who are told “too bad”? Maybe you should not be working for SSA with your attitude. I think Pete Hegseth would appreciate your callousness.
Well, those life or death situations sound like cases that would likely quality for FMLA.
SSA is asking employees to volunteer for telephone duty as a part time virtual assignment in addition to their current duties. Guess we need help after letting all of our people go.
Hey guys I'm starting to think that this frank guy might be disingenuous. I vaguely recall that first town hall where he stood up there and said his promise was that all employees would love their jobs. I also recall his comment that he'd share his phone number with all employees. Anyone want to call him up to ask what the deal is here?
FMLA is unpaid. Advanced leave allows people to have some income and they pay the advanced leave back. I wonder if this will cause people to think twice before donating leave. The voluntary leave program was mentioned as an option for those that have exhausted their leave, but people may think twice.
I think that was his daughters Pretzel line. 🥨
You can get short term disability in the private sector and with most city and state government entities. Shame on the federal gov't for being in outlier in not offering STD benefits. And please don't mention AFLAC. It is available through the workplace. We need employer sponsored STD benefits.
That’s hilarious
SSA doesn't hate employees, it just didn't have the backbone from OIG/Headquarters to deal with leave abusers and unfortunately, due to egregious managers they gave advanced leave sick like candy. We are in this situation due to the lack of support from HR, employee relations, and OIG. No-one had a backbone to really handle the lack of administering good leave practices and polices. Now, everyone has to suffer due to a knee jerk reaction. We had this problem with the abuse of comp time as well. Many managers let their employees start their work day at 6pm and they claimed all kinds of comp time. The problem isn't the hard working employees, it's the supervisors and headquarters.There is no room for growth so they make these so called "managers" take jobs they have no business taking, becasue they is the next Grade up and they lack fundamental leadership and common sense. Sorry, every good employee has to suffer through this and hope someone has some common sense to reverse this decision and actually look at the fundamental problem.
Not sure what you mean about lack of backbone. Advanced annual leave effectively was a guarantee up to 80 hours per year. The approval standard is exactly the same as annual that is not advanced. As for advanced sick leave, the approval standard required medical evidence but any monkey legit or not can get a doctor to play the game. The same is true for FMLA. Management had no backbone, because the system had no backbone. This heavy handed new process is seemingly the only way something might change. If you don't like it, blame the abusers not the approvers. For every legit person, there are three that abuse the system. With all that said, I don't expect this to last. Feels like litigation or similar consequence will be inbound.
Wow. Shocking that this kept happening—almost like it was approved all along. Let’s be clear: the people who approved it are the reason this is still going. Not bad luck, just bad accountability. If this was approved, then it didn’t just happen. It was allowed. End of story.
Everyone wants to act surprised, but the truth is simple: it got the green light.
So the problem isn’t that it went wrong—it's that it was signed off in the first place. And I'm very familiar with the policy after over 30 years in upper management and countless fights with headquarters that this was a problem.
Nah, he'll get a nice, shiny pre-emptive pardon (provided Trump doesn't keel over and pull a McConnell double twist and die before the end of his term).
Nah, Frank believes they should pay you the same to do your work as you would make selling Happy Meals at McDonalds.
Don't volunteer for anything. That is the first thing you learn in the military...err, SSA.
What law was broken?
While the blurb about management is true, SSA still despises the employees that actually do the work. More specifically, the political retardship in charge hates them.
I challenge you to submit actual evidence proving otherwise.
It was approved because that is the policy. Change the policy. Then approval would stop. Apparently, the powers that be are taking the first stab at that. Now the next problem is tightening up FMLA approvals because that process is also a sieve.
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