The "user fee" that attorneys have to pay on fees withheld and paid by the Social Security Administration remains at 6.3% for 2018. The "user fee" might more properly be called an excise tax. The cap on this excise tax will be $93 per case in 2018. Basically, because the cost of living goes up each year, net attorney fees have to go down. If that doesn't sound right, it's because you're understanding the situation. Of course, the cap on the total fee an attorney can receive per case in the vast majority of cases remains unchanged at $6,000. Attorneys who represent Social Security claimants lose each year due to inflation.
If you think we're just a bunch of overpaid whiners, think about this. The Social Security Administration employs thousands of attorneys. Virtually none of them leave their government jobs to enter private practice representing Social Security claimants. It's probably less than 10 per year; maybe way less. I'm talking about a fraction of 1% of the total number of attorneys working for the agency. If private practice were so lucrative, wouldn't you think that there would be a regular flow out into private practice? There are plenty of challenges and satisfactions in being an attorney working for the federal government but wouldn't you think that a significant number of those attorneys would crave the challenges and satisfactions of hanging out a shingle and representing individual clients? Isn't that why most attorneys went to law school in the first place?
19 comments:
When you combine that with the decrease in case pay rates, it seems things couldn't be better for lawyers. Of course, they are also demanding that we increase our overhead costs so that we can have sufficient staff to have all our case files updated on a daily basis.
If every attorney at OHO (ODAR) resigned tomorrow, I don't think Social Security would have any problem filling those positions, and many of the applicants would be associates currently working at Social Security Disability law firms. Of course, the grass is always greener...but private practice is not the paradise our government employed colleagues imagine it is even with those "big" $6000 fees. I'm not complaining because you can make a living doing this but only the owners of the large firms are making big money.
Private practice is a lose-lose proposition for most young lawyers. IF you're a solo practictioner just subsisting on SSD cases, good luck with healthcare or saving for retirement. If you're working for one of the big national hedge-fund companies, good luck getting a staff position -- you'll have to travel the region on a per-diem basis, limply trying to present the company's poorly developed case file, the one with a badly written brief, and medical records 18 months out of date, even though the record closed a week before the hearing.
Working for the federal government -- especially now, under this current Administration -- is not necessarily fun, but it gives you an 8:30-5 job, with multiple days of telework a week so you can raise your kids, and it gives you excellent healthcare, and funds your retirement (unless Paul Ryan takes all that away, because, freedom).
There's also a certain liberation in writing a decision as an SSA staff attorney, and issuing the correct outcome -- rather than having to try to "win" every case, if you're per diem for a hedge-fund company that doesn't do due diligence and screen its client before the hearing.
The problem is the numbers just don't work anymore for an ssd lawyer. You can't win only one out of three cases and still cover your overhead costs, increasing Healthcare costs, and pay staff to update record and submit evidence as often as they want us too. Ssa keeps trying to squeeze more out of reps while giving them less everyday. Of course that seems like an easy answer because demanding more from reps doesn't costs ssa one penny, and there is no union that will demand a work strike as a result of abusive work conditions for reps. Nevertheless, although SSA might feel they are better off without reps so they can deny at will without hindrance, bottom line is that reps do help move the cases and do provide a service beneficial not only to society, but also to SSA itself. It seems that SSA has been treating reps like the unwanted stepchild lately, and that is not good for SSA or society. As Shakespeare pointed out, those who want to suppress freedom and justice always begin by first suppressing the lawyers.
Since there is a max fee, shouldn't there also be a minimum fee.
How many cases have you received a partially favorable where the accrued was nuked and you don't get a fee, but you client gets lifetime benefits?
Every time the fee comes up and it comes up often I have the same answer. Don't pay it. Simply do not request direct payment. There you have avoided the fee for the government processing you paycheck.
If it is not lucrative, then move to another practice area. Whining about it makes you look like sniveling nickel grabbers and ambulance chasers, not noble defenders of the oppressed and downtrodden.
Also realize that a number of the new ALJs denying your claimant were representatives this time a year or two ago. Funny how that works.
@2:26 spoke of the,”Abusive work conditions,” SSA imposes on Reps today. While I certainly do not disagree in any way, please realize SSA/OHO has instilled abusive work conditions on its SAA’s, AA’s, and ALJ’s, like I never previously witnessed as a career insider. It’s all numbers, numbers, numbers all the time. While they emphasize quality is important, the bottom line is it takes a backseat to numbers, numbers, numbers every time. I never thought I would see the day when ALJ’s would be Reprimanded, denied telework, and punished in other ways, including Removal, if they did not schedule 50 Hearings a month. What was once a very collegial environment in which to work, now more closely resembles a sweat shop more and more each day. Suggestions on how to make the disability hearings process more efficient from ALJ’s and employees at every level is not encouraged, and if anything, frowned upon. There is no such thing as employee engagement anymore. Those who run SSA/OHO simply do not get the fact you do not have to manage your workforce in an oppressive, and often abusive manner, to successfully and efficiently run the Agency.
9:26
Your solution is unrealistic. Without direct payment, most claimants would not pay the fees, and I would go out of business.
Further, there is nothing wrong with wanting to be paid for my work.
The main problem is that SSD makes the fee system unnecessarily complex. Just sent the accrued check to the attorney made out to the attorney and the claimant. That is how every other insurance settlement is handled.
It would be nice if the fee was tied to inflation rates. I started practicing in 1990, just around that time the fee was set at $4000.00 maximum. Buying power of $4000 in 1990 today would be $7,658.43.
Right now, we are still doing better than we were in 2001. The rate did not change until 2002 to $5300. Buying power of $4000 in 2001 to now is only $5550.16.
(And just because I am geeky about this, the $5300 fee in 2002 is worth $7241.59 in 2017 dollars, and the $6000.00 fee in 2009 is worth $6890.58)
And I will gladly pay SSA a reasonable fee to pay check to us directly. Right now, having to have SSA dock a client's social security benefits because they accidentally paid him my fee and he refuses to pay us because we were successful in getting him benefits on the record before the hearing and therefore I apparently did "nothing" (except apply for him, do the recon, do the request for hearing and develop and submit his medical record so we didn't have to go to trial...)
@10:43. I realize that we reps are actually just receiving the same abuse that management is bestowing upon all its workers. However, at the end of the day, we don't have any guaranteed pay or benefits to help us lick our wounds. At the end of the day, after being chewed out because we didn't do everything exactly as they think we should , we still have to use credit cards to pay our health insurance because the one case we had a hearing on 4 months ago that will get paid (after several others being denied or having their onsets severely cut) is no where near about to be paid anytime soon, and the cash in the bank is too low right now.
11:31
I hear ya,
A few years ago I had to wait 6 months to get a fee because my client appealed my fee all the way to the regional chief judge. His argument that I did not deserved to get paid is that I "didn't do nothing" on his case. That was literally all he wrote on his complaint.
Despite the fact that I applied for him, filed the request for hearing (no recon in my state), assembled all of the medical records, obtained RFCs from his doctors, wrote a brief, and represented him at the hearing, he asserted I did nothing and did not deserve a fee.
That why it makes me laugh at the people who say we don't need withholding.
@ 2:47 Lets see you filed a request for Hearing, 45 minutes on line. Requested medical records, total time maybe 8 hours using template and fax and a 2 follow up phone calls. RFC request, template mailed to Claimant or doctor, maybe a follow up call, 1 hr. Wrote a brief, depending on the medical records about 6 hr if you are slow. Hearing about an hour. So 16 hours of work. $375/hr for your dedication and knowledge. Such a deal!!!
@3:41, ah, if it were only that easy. you're "calculations" fail to address so many practical implications of this practice, it's obvious you are not, nor ever have been a rep. first, your $375/hr over 16 hours assumes a $6000 fee.
well, first we have to deduct the user fee of $93, so now we're down to $5,907. of course, this assumes a full fee to begin with, and we all know how ALJs love amending the onset date, but we'll just assume this was a fully fav. anywho, after the user fee, the ave on THIS case goes down to $369/hr. oh, but this is just one case, and non-reps often forget that only about 45% of cases are actually paid. let's assume this guys does a little better and wins 50%. now that $369/hr is down to $184/hr (assuming he only has to spend the 16 hours per case you referenced above on all his other cases). sounds great right? it does, until you factor in that, unlike ALJs, decision writers, etc....we have overhead.
the $375/hr doesn't sound so good now, does it?
@1:09
10:43 here. Oh, I completely understand what you are saying.
And to add to 4:21
The average fee is actually around $3200, not the $6,000 the Agency lackey supposed.
I met with the client and spent a minimum of one hour learning about his problems before filing the initial application. I filed that application, online, and then responded when the DO sent a letter to my client saying they didn't get the 827. Various dealing with the DO and the State Agency take about another 4 hours. If denied, 2/3rds of the time (If approved quickly may get a large fee but may get nothing at all if still in waiting period or DO "forgot" to input attorney info) then file Recon and when denied again file RH. All told those are approximately ten hour below hearing including various talks with client.
Once at hearing level, various calls from clients about why it takes so long. Letters, way more than two, to medical sources, follow ups to medical sources, fighting with Record Producers over charges. Lets just say I and my staff are efficient at this but at least five hours to do this.
Hearing is now scheduled so need to meet with client to prepare for hearing, an hour at least, contact sources client forgot to tell me about, review file and actually prepare for the hearing. Again, assume I'm efficient and this all takes a minimum of five hours.
Hearing day. Travel to the hearing to arrive early. I lie close so only a half hour in travel time both ways. Arrive at 9:00 AM for hearing scheduled at 9:30. Hearing starts around 10:00 on a good day. OK, go with the one hour hearing then go back to office. Again lets say a minimum of three hours spent. (Sometimes divided if there are multiple hearings. Possibly file supplemental brief to challenge VE nonsense taking another one to two hours depending.
Glory day! won. Now discuss award with client and frequently follow up to see what the holdup in payment could be.
Add it all up. Average on a good ay about 20-25 hours per case.
Now, consider the average fee. Lets say $4000 (not $6000) for the average hearing case. Fee is now about $160-200 per hour expended for winners. Nothing for losers but out of pocket expenses. And out of that fee, I need to pay rent, office expenses, staff salaries, etc.
Not whining, I have made and continue to make a very nice living but the delusions of the Hearing office staff as to just how lucrative private practice in SS really is are just that, delusions. But, if you really think its that easy, then get off your butt and open your own office, attorney or non-attorney rep, and make your mark.
@10:35 and others
I would agree that $3200 is a good rough average if you are ONLY doing administrative appeal case work, administrative hearings. Its not great, but even a practice built on that alone is far more financially lucrative and personally satisfying than working for the government. I see that as a prison. I can not imagine having to keep my mouth closed and write/justify the hostile, decisions and suck up to ALJs and supervisors knowing you are denying far too many cases. Really, work for the DT government or have personal ethics and integrity. Easy choice. However, like any good business person, you have to pay close attention to costs and make good choices on clients, use technology, etc to increase profit. AC and Court work increase the bottom line quite a bit. Filing a full initial claim can seem tedious. It is doing work that used to be done by SSA. But spending a little time on an initial app may get some easy high hourly fees. Not feeling any pain here.. My profits and SEP contribution are high. I can feel good about what I do and there may be just a bit of tax relief coming.
Well, the SSA's employees complaints sound very much just like the employer I had, with the hostile working conditions, where it expected quality and quantity, leaving it's members with very little in terms of service and the same for its own employees who were patients too. I'm willing to bet my very few leftover SSI dollars( it should've been SSDI but then the employer would have had to pay its share of FICA and we pay for MEDICARE) that the employer I worked for has reached its ugly long reaching tentacles into the SSA among other govt agencies like the VA. Anything to leave the member with little to nothing FOR what they paid or pay for and in this instance, it's called 'Health care" . AND this employer is a federal contractors that is one of the largest "non profit's" HMO's in the country. THANK KAISER PERMANENTE & IT'S MANY OTHER SUBSIDIARIES for the totally ineffective quantity & quality mantra that is nothing more than a money making machine for its self and other govt agencies. Private Companies too! Our govt needs a wake up call for its own U.S.citizens and how to really treat them!
@ 10:35 why would anyone practice in an area they cannot make money at? I do not buy the whole white knight excuses either, if you don't like don't practice in it. Simple. If half your claims are losers then you are taking the wrong claims and adding to the backlog. Just representing them on the chance you get paid.
So basically, you want the payment processed by SSA so you get paid and the Claimant doesn't stiff you, but you don't want to pay for the convenience of direct pay. So like everyone else you want something for nothing, because that fee is the only thing keeping you alive. HA!
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