From Oswego County Today:
U.S. Rep. John Katko (R, NY-24) today led an effort calling on the Social Security Administration (SSA) to implement new and flexible options for Central New Yorkers who need to submit required documents during the ongoing pandemic.
This effort comes in response to calls Katko has received from Central New Yorkers who have been impacted by the continued closure of SSA field offices in Central New York. Rep. Katko led this bipartisan effort alongside U.S. Reps. Abigail Spanberger (D, VA-7), Dusty Johnson (R, SD-AL), Lauren Underwood (D, IL-14), and Elise Stefanik (R, NY-21).
For more than a year, over 1,500 Social Security field offices across the country, including the locations in Syracuse, Oswego, and Geneva, have been closed to the public due to the ongoing pandemic. Field office closures have particularly impacted Central New Yorkers who need to show original documents, such as a driver’s license, to process SSA claims, obtain a replacement SSA card, or access benefits. ...
If you're a field office employee, steel yourself. The field offices will reopen to the public before the end of the summer. If things stay on their current trajectory, by July 1 most businesses in the country will have reopened. Baseball games will be played before full crowds. There will be outdoor and indoor concerts before full audiences. It will be impossible to keep the field offices closed for long once we get to that point. Field office employees can talk all they want about ventilation and cubicles being too close together and Covid variants and so on but the public won't care. Andrew Saul is jerk but the agency will be within its rights to reopen the field offices once we get a higher percentage of the population vaccinated. I would guess that the agency will go back to something like telework as it was before Andrew Saul came along but the field offices aren't going to stay closed indefinitely.
35 comments:
From what I've read it's not a bipartisan call for reopening. Almost all of those calling for the SSA FO to reopen are Republicans.
There are just too many question marks for SSA to rush into reopening. With the new COVID variants, reopening too soon could lead to disaster. Look at what is happening in India right now when they tried to ignore the virus, and prematurely returned to life as normal.
We're supposed to give 60 days notice for retirement. I've pulled up the forms online. I should be able to time this so that I can give notice and retire when and if the offices reopen.
I'm not going to let SSA and Saul do to me again, what they did in 2019 when they ended telework for no just cause.. . I qualify to retire now. I believe there are many other SSA employees who will take this route. Especially since it will not be 100% safe to return.
Anyone eligible for retirement will retire before coming back into the office. Be ready for that wave.
To avoid the retirement wave, and for safety purposes, employees age 60+ should be allowed to continue 5 day a week telework, even if the FO reopen. This age group is most vulnerable. There could be vaccine resistant strains of COVID.
If the FO reopen SSA will likely reopen the PSC and TSC too. Otherwise FO employees would try to transfer to other Operations components such as PSC and TSC, to avoid losing telework.
If the initial need to reopen the field offices is to handle the work mentioned in the article, to show original documents, such as a driver’s license, to process SSA claims, obtain a replacement SSA card, or access benefits, the field offices should be able to find a way to reopen for at least these limited services.
If I can go to my bank and cash a check, which requires me to show an ID, SSA should be able to be open to at least accept and review documents that people need to bring in. This can be done with a skeleton crew while telework continues for other matters.
Reopening too soon is stupid. All you have to do is watch the tragedy unfolding in India to know that. I hope that SSA and the country is not going to end up duplicating what is happening in India.
@1:17, no CS is going to volunteer to downgrade from a GS11 to a GS7 to work in the TSC. I think BAs top out somewhere around there and the job is totally different. WSUs are full up.
Your analogy is off. First, returning to entertainment businesses cannot be considered essential. The business of SSA can be fairly essential for those seeking the services.
Second, venues like baseball are outside. Local SSA offices before the pandemic were mostly fairly cramped with long lines.
Also, the population seeking SSA services tend to be older and more vulnerable to the virus. This is why I believe SSD/SSI hearings should stay remote.
It is just simple. Now if we did not have the technology, then we would have to pivot. But we have the technology. The SSA should be able to function to help conduct business without reopening. They just simply do not want to do to spend more money.
@ 1:17pm Pull up your retirement papers. Employees who choose to work in a public-facing organization should plan to face the public when most have been vaccinated and other businesses are back to business.
4:05: The GS-11 CR's in the FOs (I think they are called CS Claim Specialist now), could transfer to any of the eight PSC's in the USA as GS-11 Claims Specialist Thus they could keep teleworking and keep their grades if the FO reopen and the PSC remains closed ( I work in the PSC and I've known several former FO CR's who transferred to the payment center. ) BA's are GS-9.
Also I think there are some lower grades in the FO who could transfer to the TSC without losing pay.
SSA offices are generally poorly ventalated and the cubicles are too close together. Social distancing is almost impossible. Opening SSA FO would inevitably bring in some people who are infected with COVID19, this would put every other person in that FO in danger, both the general public and SSA employees.
Even though I am fully vaccinated, I would not feel comfortable interviewing a person across a desk. who has one of the highly transmissible variants of this terrible virus. There have been cases of fully vaccinated people who have still caught the virus and who knows what the future will be with the new variants in India which may show up in this country.
PSC and TSC are not safe either, employees have to crowd into elevators to reach upper floors and the same problems with poor ventilation and close quarter cubicles.
It's not worth taking the risk to reopen, not until at least 2022 and only if the virus levels shrink to almost nothing. Besides, telework is working well, and everyone is used to it now. Skeleton crew in FO can accomplish the few tasks which require the public to come in, such as to copy documents.
Telework for FOs is great for the employees but not the public whom they were hired to serve. A lot of claims taking and processing can still be done by telework but many actions can better be done in person.
With special Covid guidelines, many documents for claims can be obtained later when offices reopen. But things like new SSNs, replacement w/ a name change, citizenship change or permanent residency involved require actual documents. Some of those are now able to obtain appointments in offices but many don't fit the guidelines. If a person just needs a replacement card and there is no change in status or name, and the person is a US citizen that has proven citizenship before, those people can establish a mySSA account and request a duplicate SSN online.
You can fill out the paperwork and retire the same day, but it will take time for SSA HR to prepare the OPM package, and for it to get to OPM and be processed there. In the meantime, you'll have your last paychecks to live on. That may or may not be enough.
I've not seen anyone mention the public in the discussion. The whole reason the FO exists, no? The pre-Covid cattle call waiting rooms? Sitting cheek by jowl in a small space? If you apply Covid space requirements, the waiting area of my local office could hold the guard and like 4 people at a time. Yet I've seen it packed and a line a block long out the door, again pre-covid. That line would go back 6 blocks now.
get back to work in the offices. My office of 60 employees have been safely back in the office since June 2020. Yes we have had employees who caught Covid. But nobody caught it in the office nor was it spread within the office. this can be done safely. So get back to work, or retire and move out of the way. Its time to reopen everything. get your vaccine and do your part. then stop being so scared.
@7:15AM
"Yes we have had employees who caught COVID. But nobody caught it in the office nor was it spread within the office."
The mere fact that you would say this demonstrates you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
It's not as simple as everything is better now, let's reopen everything. Will there be a vaccine mandate? If so, how is that verified and enforced, particularly with the public? If not, then masking is required in all common spaces. But people need a break from that to eat and rest. Where will they do that? What's the protocol if a claimant refuses to wear a mask? Will there be in office contract tracing? Under what circumstances will an office close again? Increased community transmissions or exposures in the office? This only scratches the surface. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen or won't happen but to do it safely, it takes time and expertise.
I knew that one of the first five answers would be a retirement threat. It is almost comical!
Go back to the office or get a new job. If you think you are going to get pay and benefit and protection in the real world you are seriously out of touch.
Shut up, sit down and work.
7:15 "So get back to work, or retire and move out of the way."
It's not that simple. It takes years, even decades, to become totally proficient and accurate in certain highly technical SSA jobs, such as Claims Specialists or Claims Reps. I've seen so many cases totally screwed up by inexperienced employees, and some of the mistakes cost the taxpayers over 100K on one case. Incorrectly interpreting an ALJ decision, and errors on workers' compensation offset are the most costly mistakes from what I have seen..
SSA Operations jobs are somewhat unusual, in that people in their 50's and 60's are often the best and most accurate employees. Also the hiring criteria was more stringent in the 70's and 80's when these employees came on board, SSA generally hired those who were highly qualified.
SSA should do everything it can to avoid a retirement wave , this wave which would inevitably occur if the agency ends telework and reopen the offices. Having many of the best employees leave all at once through retirement twould be disastrous for the agency and for the public we serve.
Wow. These alarmist remarks are both incredible and disappointing. When I began active duty service in the Navy before deploying to the western Pacific I received a series of vaccinations. I had no choice. In serving my country, accepting the vaccinations was my duty. If you choose to be an employee of the Social Security Administration then you have chosen to work in a job that serves the public and you have an obligation to return to in-person work, not unlike medical care providers. By July 1, 2021, no one will be wearing a face mask and those who have not been vaccinated have assumed the risk of infection. Be prepared to return to in-person work or retire.
"Shut up, sit down and work."
You have to be in SSA management. Is that you Saul?
Offices cannot be opened safely just yet. Yes, everyone wants a return to whatever the new normal is going to be. But, it is too soon to reopen. India is a stark reminder of what can happen if proper precautions are not taken. And does anyone really think SSA will take proper precautions to provide proper safety to employees and the public? SSA did not do that prior to the pandemic so good luck getting that to happen now.
If you are looking for an excuse to retire, they you probably are not doing your best work and are in fact stealing from the American tax payer.
Go home Boomer!
In life or death matters, It's better to error on the side of caution. Especially since most SSA employees can do their jobs well, safely at home, while teleworking..
What if SSA reopens in late summer, , then there is another surge in Coronavirus cases and fatalities in the fall? By the time SSA then closed down again, many employees could already be infected with new variants which are vaccine resistant.
Lets face it.. SSA employees who return to the office prematurely could pay with their lives, or could infect their loved ones. It's better to wait until 2022 just to make sure the vaccines are working and that there are no more surges in cases.
Wonders if SSA employees feel that EVERY service, office, operation and manufacturing plant should be shut down until it is "safe." I bet they complain about what they cannot do and what they have to go through to get the business of life done. But as long as they are "safe" they are 100% okay with screwing the Number Holders they claim to serve.
Disgusting. Shameful.
It's easy for a teleworking employee to think the work can be done from home--after all, they're at home, they're doing good work.
But the managers and few in-person staff aren't able to keep up with all the stuff that's being faxed and mailed. More people need to go in to do that. And if you can't get a mySSA account and you need a new card, or don't want to mail in your ID in order to get enumerated or do a name change or get benefits effectuated, appointments are either hard to get or not available at all. That only changes when more people go back to work. The fact that SSI claims plummeted means there's pent-up demand. You may not see it while you're working from home, but there are people who qualify for benefits and aren't getting them right now even though they'd qualify if the applied. Workers' health is important. But so is serving people who are only going to get the services they need if the offices are open.
SSA employees aren't going to pay with their lives. Stop being so dramatic, folks. The vaccine works. There's no data to suggest that it will not be safe to return to work relatively soon. While I can't stand the anti-science right, I also am equally disgusted with the anti-science sentiments being shared here by SSA employees.
There is inherent risk in being alive. Every day, we all take risks that we deem reasonable. Driving a car. Eating food. Walking outside. Being a little bit (or a lot) overweight. All of these things pose risk. Yet we don't freak out over them, or at least most of us don't.
COVID is a big risk. But once you've had COVID, and especially once you've been fully vaccinated, that risk drops significantly. Yes, there's still risk from COVID for those who have been vaccinated, but it's significantly lower that other risks that we accept and deal with every day.
Once you're fully vaccinated, you're going to be just fine. There's definitely a debate that needs to happen about what jobs return to in-person and what ones can be done remotely, but COVID shouldn't be a part of that conversation. The data proves that if you're vaccinated the risk is within a reasonably acceptable level.
And we most certainly shouldn't slow down reopening because of the crazies out there who refuse to get the vaccine.
@4:24 pm Your argument is greatly flawed. It is well known that the COVID variants are a huge factor in preventing herd immunity. What makes you think the vaccines are going to be effective against the myriad of COVID19 variants? SSA does a poor job of ensuring employee safety. So, I wouldn't expect that agency to handle the COVID19 risks appropriately so that employees can return to work safely. No need to reopen soon and start down the path that currently exists in India. To do so would be utterly stupid.
It's one thing to work for a law firm , in a private office. With others in the office those you know are educated,, intelligent, trustworthy and careful with their health.
It's another to work in a crowded field office with people you don't know coming in, some of whom are not vaccinated and who are infected with COVID..
Or to work in a PSC with thousands of other employees, some of whom travel internationally and take other unnecessary risks. Having to crowd into an elevator with coworkers, and sit in a cubicle without proper social distancing.
I feel that I am serving the SSA number holders well from home. I can now do everything from here that I used to be able to do from the office. After a year of teleworking I've learned all the teleworking tools, and the agency has provided us with many new tools to do our jobs well from home.
SSA should not throw all this progress away, and ask employees to resume long commutes to crowded offices, as if this is 20 years ago before we could telework. Especially when there are so many unknowns with this virus.
Having a telephone hearing is a poor excuse for a hearing but better than waiting for a year. The new video hearings with Microsoft Teams are better than telephone but still not the same as an in person hearing and they are awfully slow rolling out.
Being in the room with a claimant and looking them in the face is the best way to judge a case. The agency, however, for what they see as reasons of efficiency, will delay in person hearings as long as they can get away with it and continue to push for telephone/video hearings even after offices are fully open.
Efficiency and not fairness/quality have always been the bureaucratic goal.
So by the logic of 5:13 as long as SSA stays closed we will all be safe since everything else in the country is open and people are returning to the new normal.
@5:13
It's me, 4:24. What evidence do you have that the vaccines aren't effective against the different variants? I'd be very interested in seeing any research that suggests this is a realistic possibility. However, so far I'm not aware of anything that suggests our current US vaccines are anything short of marvelous. I'm afraid that you're shooting off your mouth based on fear of the unknown. Clearly we won't end up like India. If we'd step up and help them get an adequate supply of vaccines, we'd end their COVID problems very quickly.
And just a pointer: if you want to negotiate on having some type of remote work options in the future, don't use this all-or-nothing approach. You'll lose. A balance needs to be reached here and your behavior makes you no different that Andrew Saul.
@3:57 Your assertions are flawed again. There is insufficient evidence to prove (no longitudinal studies) that the vaccines are effective against the COVID variants. Seems like you are just trying to justify a position that cannot be justified. Vaccines won't end India's problems very quickly either. As far as negotiations, I would never want your advice on that as I usually emerge victorious in most negotiations. But thanks for the input. I got a good laugh out of it.
I recall the last days of work before the building shut down in March 2020. Wild rumors about which employee may have COVID, people afraid to stand close, some people wearing masks and others not. People avoiding an employee who had gone overseas.
No thanks I am not returning to that.
I spent the day estimating my retirement.
I'm going to tell my supervisor that if SSA reopens, I'm not coming back..
“Being in the room with a claimant and looking them in the face is the best way to judge a case.”
No, it’s really not. Judges who wing it by sizing up a claimant via the eyeball test or reps who think a 30-60 minute presentation is going to replace 2+ years of medical records don’t know how the process works. In-person hearings are important for the person who wants one, but outside of rare situations, the result will usually be the same whether by phone, video, or live.
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