The Social Security Administration is demanding a Georgia woman should have to pay for a government mistake the agency made more than four decades ago. ...Ginger Snowden was just 14 years old back in the 1970s when the SSA now says it mistakenly overpaid her father social security benefits.
Now, long after his death, the federal government wants her to pay back the money.
Federal officials are standing by the claim, telling [WSB] that they have a legal right to demand payment. ...
The alleged overpayments to Snowden's father -- nearly $3,000 -- were from 1973 when she was still a child.
"It was like, 'How can you collect money from me?'" Snowden said. "I just kept saying over and over again that I was 14 years old."
According to officials, Snowden lived in the same house with her father at the time, and therefore received some benefit from the money.
The Snowdens are not alone. ...
Back in 2014, Senator Chuck Grassley sent a letter blasting the Social Security Administration for going after decades-old overpayments, writing, "The actions raise serious questions about whether it is collecting debt properly or fairly."
After the criticism, the Social Security Administration temporarily stopped those controversial collection efforts.
But now, the SSA tells [WSB]: "Our review found we correctly applied the law and our regulations, policies and procedures.
In 2018, they say the once again started attempting to collect the old debts. ...
Jul 13, 2020
They're Baaaaack!
From WSB in Atlanta:
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16 comments:
Anyone willing to represent her?
If she just requests a waiver and appeals, she'll win. Won't need a lawyer. The claim goes against "equity and good conscience."
anon@10:51am,
Unfortunately, the agency puts major limitations on ability of its employees to use the "equity and good conscience" clause related to waivers due to the way the policy is written.
In this case, she resided in the same household as the overpaid person at the time the overpayment occurred and was probably receiving benefits from his record. As a result, agency employees can't waive this overpayment under that clause as it doesn't meet the very strict requirements imposed in GN 02250.150 (the fact they were living together prevents it).
That being said, she still definitely needs to request a waiver. FO employees can't waive it if she can show ability to repay, but an ALJ most certainly can (and probably will) waive it given the relatively small amount. Many ALJs might even approve the waiver without a hearing as they won't want to waste time with having a hearing over an amount that small that she obviously wasn't at fault in causing.
Just needs to file a waiver. Almost any normal ALJ would grant this.
She was a minor and not responsible for that!
At least SSA doesn't charge interest on debts like the IRS.
That $3000 overpayment from 1973 is worth over $17000 today just with inflation..
Just delete it. And hope you don't get caught. Nobody understands ROAR anyway.
anon@5:27pm,
It doesn't matter. "Fair" is an almost completely alien concept to law, and SSA's interpretation of law is most certainly devoid of it.
In the end, this all goes back to Congress. Pissants like Grassley and his ilk can send all the boilerplate protest form letters to SSA they want to and it won't make a bit of difference.
However, what would make a difference would be Congress actually doing their jobs and passing laws to specifically put limits on what the agency can do regarding collections. However, while individual Congresspersons yell and scream to the press about it, they don't EVER bother to pass any meaningful legislation to correct it. Since Congress refuses to address the issue, they are basically stating they secretly have no problem with the status quo and that the agency should continue its present actions.
Don't get me wrong - I feel that if somebody is overpaid (for whatever reason), it needs to be addressed. However, the agency shouldn't be allowed to take 30 years to get around to addressing it. Congress needs to establish a specific legal framework defining the window within which SSA has to address its debts, something that only grossly exists today. Until that is done, this will keep on happening.
@1:15
I would support a limitation as to duration, but it would need to be significant. Maybe 10 years or so, just due to SSA's sheer incompetence.
I think a better solution would be to preclude seeking an overpayment from anyone other than the numberholder or their estate. It's absurd to go after survivors for debts incurred by the deceased, even if a portion of the deceased's improperly received benefits MAY have supported the survivors. I'm also not even sure how you could calculate that.
Or make it SSA's burden to prove everything as to the overpayment. That would dry up a lot of these cases.
SSA sends these overpayment letters without details as to how, when, where the overpayment was incurred. SSA used to put what the person was due, what was actually paid, and the amount of overpayment or underpayment. Now SSA overpayment letters just say "Your are overpaid XXX & pay us back within 30 days". I saw one case where the overpayment was listed as $160,000 with no explanation! Even a reconsideration request on the amount of the overpayment, asking for details, are ignored for years. SSA figures it can always recoup "overpayments" from people's retirement benefits, so SSA has no incentive to be accurate or fair. It's ridiculous and frightening -- no other debt collector could do this, but must prove the debt is owed. Congress needs to restrain such practices.
@2:16
Yeah, the only way we get to see the evidence/explanation is once it gets to the hearing level.
Recon requests can't be ignored for years. When someone files a recon on an overpayment a recon protest indicator gets posted to ROAR by the FO, and that stops withholding/collection until the recon is addressed by the payment center.
And it's important to recover overpayments for the sake of the trust fund. People on disability return to work and don't notify SSA causing thousands of dollars in overpayment when we find out. . Or they get workers' comp and try to keep it secret from SSA, I've seen overpayments of over $100,000.00 caused by SSA discovering the worker had been getting WC for years.
I have to write recon notices to explain overpayments to beneficiaries. It is simply not true that no explanation is given until it gets to a hearing level. At least on the cases I work, I give a thorough explanation of what caused the overpayment and a paid/payable chart to explain the overpayment amount. This is at the recon level, and then they can file for a hearing if they want to. But most don't because the overpayment is correct and the claimant knows that after they get the recon letter.
@10:05
This case doesn't involve failure to report a return to work or workers' compensation so your comment is a non sequitur.
SSA doesn't charge interest and if you aren't due a tax refund doesn't do a whole lot most of the time if you ignore the letters. Sounds like a good deal for claimants to get an interest free loan for 20-30 years or more. They are paying back with dollars that are worth much less than what they incorrectly received.
@10:08
How can I get in contact with you? We lack training in dealing with O/P. I need someone I can count to on help me better understand and explain the more complex O/P that aren't very clear as to how it was caused. Thanks.
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