I understand from the National Organization of Social Security Claimants Representatives (NOSSCR) that Social Security is hoping to offer video hearings to claimants from their homes or their attorneys' offices starting as early as November.
23 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Wonder if they will bother to tell the judges about this? So judges holding video hearings from home. And how will the Hatch Act apply then? Better not have your Biden hat in the background. And the ALJ union is going to allow this without bargaining over it first?
Yes, you'll have to make sure your political paraphernalia isn't in the background. And if that seems too burdensome, then you should probably pack up your toys and retire, because you probably don't possess the requisite maturity and work ethic to perform the job anyway.
They are already offering video psyche CE's with Skype level video so the PII worries should not be a hurdle with this. Sounds like an improvement over telephone only.
I guess I should reinstitute my morning shower routine in the next month or two so it's not a shock to the system when these start. I usually wear shirts and always wear shorts, so putting clothes on isn't as big of an issue for me.
In person hearings can be conducted safely, protecting both staff and claimants. This isn't rocket science. The physical changes needed to accommodate safety concerns at an OHO would be simple and inexpensive to complete. Employees at an OHO should be classified as essential service workers. Telephone or video hearings are not providing claimants with an experience and opportunity equal to the in person hearing at an OHO. It seems likely that the virus shutdown is accelerating the process of eliminating all in person hearings in lieu of virtual reality, i.e., voices or video monitors for the sake of staff convenience and supposed cost savings. There is no substitute for the benefits of actual physical presence of judge and claimant together in a room. By analogy, any trial lawyer knows that a live witness before the jury is superior to testimony by audio only or use of a video deposition.
@6:30 PM I am ready to return to office and conduct in person hearings. Indeed there are many times where the record indicates a weak case that is paid after the hearing or a strong looking medical file that winds up being denied After the hearing. But the ALJs have no say as you can see. They do not even merit being kept appraised of developments. The ALJ union and its members learned of the proposed video hearings from this blog. And the union and management just had a labor meeting on 8/20/20!
Please share with us how easy it is to keep employees and the public safe from crowded hearing office lobbies, near-constant use of client-rep meeting rooms, hearing office restrooms or water fountains, etc. Do you just crowd everyone into the hall outside the hearing office where employees and other members of the public walk? The lobby of the building the hearing office is located?
Hearing rooms aren't the issue as they can be easily cleaned between hearings. Hearing offices were cramped and crowded before the virus. Their facilities (restrooms and meeting rooms with computers) were very limited with wait lines for each on occasion. Claimants who rely on public transportation to get around can be exposed on the bus or train to the hearing. Sick people will come to hearing offices in spite of their symptoms or being asymptomatic with the ability to spread it through the air.
Courts of all types across the country are doing video and phone hearings, including criminal courts. This isn't novel by SSA. If you're tired of losing money or having your clients ask why you're making them wait for an in-person hearing when their neighbor/cousin/buddy got approved in their phone hearing, maybe you should revisit your stance on these hearings. Have you checked your local office's/offices' favorable rates since they've gone to phone hearings to see if there has been a material change?
When I asked one of our hearing attorneys if she's noticed that phone hearings have altered the pay rates, she answered no. "The good cases are still getting paid and the marginal cases are still getting denied." This seems to be the consensus from other attorneys I've spoken with as well.
I see no reason to resume in person hearings until there is an effective vaccine or therapeutic widely available. As 7:05 explains, the risk for all parties involved is still too great.
@7:05 "Hearing rooms aren't the issue as they can be easily cleaned between hearings."
And this sort of thinking is a huge contributor to the virus's ongoing spread. Cramming multiple people into any small confined space is an issue. This is an airborne infection caused by a microscopic (i.e. invisible to the eye) viral organism that seems to be infective at relatively tiny doses. So there's tremendous risk associated with being in any confined space with others, regardless of how nice the space smells or how clean it looks.
I have almost daily Zoom meetings from my office or home. On Sunday evening I had a Knights of Columbus officers meetings. On Tuesday morning I had a City Sales Tax Committee meeting on Go to Meeting. On Tuesday evening another Knights of Columbus Committee meeting. On Thursday evening I have a Law School Alumni Board Meeting on Zoom.
I realize that SSA feels an obligation to protect privacy but there is surely some encryption software to handle the problem.
I do not wish to have in person hearings at this time. I am over 70 years old, have auto immune diseases but am overall healthy. I have also outlived my immediate family (wife and two adult children) with the exception of my younger son who relies on me for assistance. I also do not have a relative (other than the younger son) within 1,000 miles of my primary home.
To some extent the in person hearings has held my retirement back. I have a second home in a vacation type area (warm in the winter). I will probably spend the winter there as long as there are no in person hearings. I can do much of my work online and in another, warmer in the winter state.
Seems consistent with my experience. The client's you're madly certain are totally disabled rarely look half as impaired as you're convinced they are. And when the client is disabled, it's usually fairly obvious from the medical records. On the other hand, judges are rarely fooled by the client who isn't disabled, but puts on a big show by dragging a cane or walker into the hearing room with them. And without the benefit of getting to see the person, many ALJs seem to err on the side of approving the iffier claims, along with a recommendation for a review in a year or two. So in the grand scheme, the whole situation is basically a win-win for those willing to set aside their stubborn prejudices and make the modest sacrifice to agree to a telephonic hearing.
Let's see: They told us if everyone stayed home for a couple of weeks it would stop the spread. Worked, didn't it? They told us if everyone would wear a mask it would stop the spread. Worked, didn't it?
How many of you who are so opposed to going back to the office go to Walmart? How many of you go out to eat?
Since the other things the "experts" told us haven't worked, I'm sure you guys would agree, we need to shut down Walmart and all the other stores, don't we?
Unless we all just lock ourselves in our homes, we are going to come in contact with others. Have you noticed, Walmart is not wiping down those credit card machines between every customer. How many times are customers picking up items in Walmart and the grocery store and putting them back on the shelves to be touched by someone else? So, unless you're completely avoiding Walmart, the grocery store, restaurants, etc., your paranoia seems a little selective, don't ya think.
Those measures didn't work because they were ignored (and continue to be ignored) by huge swaths of the country. Based on your rhetoric, I'd wager you were among the many who failed to follow the guidelines. And no one (except perhaps the President) ever said this would clear up if we'd just follow the guidelines for "a couple of weeks."
If you want to pretend this is all some giant Chinese or Democrat hoax, then by all means, carry on and suffer the consequences. As for me, I'll keep protecting myself by getting my groceries dropped in the trunk and avoiding Wal-Mart and other confined public spaces. Just know that your inability to handle even minor inconveniences only prolongs the length of time us sane adults will need to keep taking such extraordinary measures to protect ourself.
Agree with @2:11, previous measures haven't worked, because we haven't worked them. Sit down restaurants here are just playing social distancing. Maybe they can figure a way to make VTC hearings safe, but most of the rooms aren't very roomy. Then too, the judges will have to stop scheduling all the hearings at the same time (morning hearings at 9 and afternoon hearings at 1:30) Getting the stuff for the reps' offices is another matter. So my claimants come sit with me so we can get sick? The phone hearings have their issues, but for the time being, we can work with it.
There is much diversity between various OHO offices. I have been participating in hearings held in Lansing, Michigan, for the past 40 years. I believe that in person hearings could be resumed at OHO in Lansing on a reasonably safe basis. Likely, other offices are not suitable by physical layout to accommodate a return to in-person hearings.
I absolutely hate Trump and do not want to indicate that I agree with his sycophants that the virus is a Democrat engineered hoax. But, I do believe we have overreacted to the pandemic, primarily due to a complete lack of national leadership beginning with the moron in the Oval Office.
We need to push a national reset button and return to work at least where the need is great, such as a restart of OHO in-person hearings. Otherwise, we have no exit strategy for returning to normal behavior. This pandemic is not going to be a one and done crisis. There will be more and different viruses coming in the near future.
Why are you convinced the Lansing MI office can safely reopen for in-person hearings? Not sure what's happening in Lansing itself, but the HOs in MI draw from fairly large chunks of the state, and the state overall is headed in the wrong direction. At the moment, it doesn't appear the state would even pass the first hurdle of the half-baked white house reopening guidelines.
Also, why, exactly, are you convinced the US has "overreacted" to this pandemic. I see plenty of reasons to believe we've done the opposite. Take, for example, that our nation has one of the highest death rates among confirmed COVID patients, and has done the absolute worst job (by far!) controlling its spread on a per-capita basis?
This is a great blog. Want to thank you for keeping it up and keeping us informed. 8 know it is additional work.
You broke the story on home video hearings. On the same day of your post the SSA deputy commissioner of OHO had to send out an email to its personnel informing them of this latest development since the cat was out of the bag.
It is obvious to many us ALJs that our employer thinks very little of us and they hate the APA which gives us independence.
So it's safe for attorneys to sit in the same room as the clients, but not for the Judges and Court reports? I understand that some OHO could be crowded but it was not the case in most offices pre covid.
23 comments:
Wonder if they will bother to tell the judges about this? So judges holding video hearings from home. And how will the Hatch Act apply then? Better not have your Biden hat in the background. And the ALJ union is going to allow this without bargaining over it first?
From the NOSSCR Q&A, it does not appear that SSA has bothered to advise the ALJs of this development yet. Pretty typical management move.
@6:51 AM
Yes, you'll have to make sure your political paraphernalia isn't in the background. And if that seems too burdensome, then you should probably pack up your toys and retire, because you probably don't possess the requisite maturity and work ethic to perform the job anyway.
You'll have to put on half a suit. You can still wear sweatpants or shorts as long as you are seated behind your desk.
per manager call last week. Virtual backgrounds will be used for the ALJ.
I’ll have to stop wearing my bathrobe!
They are already offering video psyche CE's with Skype level video so the PII worries should not be a hurdle with this. Sounds like an improvement over telephone only.
re: 10:10 am
I do my hearings au naturale.
I guess I should reinstitute my morning shower routine in the next month or two so it's not a shock to the system when these start. I usually wear shirts and always wear shorts, so putting clothes on isn't as big of an issue for me.
In person hearings can be conducted safely, protecting both staff and claimants. This isn't rocket science. The physical changes needed to accommodate safety concerns at an OHO would be simple and inexpensive to complete. Employees at an OHO should be classified as essential service workers. Telephone or video hearings are not providing claimants with an experience and opportunity equal to the in person hearing at an OHO. It seems likely that the virus shutdown is accelerating the process of eliminating all in person hearings in lieu of virtual reality, i.e., voices or video monitors for the sake of staff convenience and supposed cost savings. There is no substitute for the benefits of actual physical presence of judge and claimant together in a room. By analogy, any trial lawyer knows that a live witness before the jury is superior to testimony by audio only or use of a video deposition.
@6:30 PM I am ready to return to office and conduct in person hearings. Indeed there are many times where the record indicates a weak case that is paid after the hearing or a strong looking medical file that winds up being denied After the hearing. But the ALJs have no say as you can see. They do not even merit being kept appraised of developments. The ALJ union and its members learned of the proposed video hearings from this blog. And the union and management just had a labor meeting on 8/20/20!
@6:30
Please share with us how easy it is to keep employees and the public safe from crowded hearing office lobbies, near-constant use of client-rep meeting rooms, hearing office restrooms or water fountains, etc. Do you just crowd everyone into the hall outside the hearing office where employees and other members of the public walk? The lobby of the building the hearing office is located?
Hearing rooms aren't the issue as they can be easily cleaned between hearings. Hearing offices were cramped and crowded before the virus. Their facilities (restrooms and meeting rooms with computers) were very limited with wait lines for each on occasion. Claimants who rely on public transportation to get around can be exposed on the bus or train to the hearing. Sick people will come to hearing offices in spite of their symptoms or being asymptomatic with the ability to spread it through the air.
Courts of all types across the country are doing video and phone hearings, including criminal courts. This isn't novel by SSA. If you're tired of losing money or having your clients ask why you're making them wait for an in-person hearing when their neighbor/cousin/buddy got approved in their phone hearing, maybe you should revisit your stance on these hearings. Have you checked your local office's/offices' favorable rates since they've gone to phone hearings to see if there has been a material change?
When I asked one of our hearing attorneys if she's noticed that phone hearings have altered the pay rates, she answered no. "The good cases are still getting paid and the marginal cases are still getting denied." This seems to be the consensus from other attorneys I've spoken with as well.
I see no reason to resume in person hearings until there is an effective vaccine or therapeutic widely available. As 7:05 explains, the risk for all parties involved is still too great.
@7:05 "Hearing rooms aren't the issue as they can be easily cleaned between hearings."
And this sort of thinking is a huge contributor to the virus's ongoing spread. Cramming multiple people into any small confined space is an issue. This is an airborne infection caused by a microscopic (i.e. invisible to the eye) viral organism that seems to be infective at relatively tiny doses. So there's tremendous risk associated with being in any confined space with others, regardless of how nice the space smells or how clean it looks.
I have almost daily Zoom meetings from my office or home. On Sunday evening I had a Knights of Columbus officers meetings. On Tuesday morning I had a City Sales Tax Committee meeting on Go to Meeting. On Tuesday evening another Knights of Columbus Committee meeting. On Thursday evening I have a Law School Alumni Board Meeting on Zoom.
I realize that SSA feels an obligation to protect privacy but there is surely some encryption software to handle the problem.
I do not wish to have in person hearings at this time. I am over 70 years old, have auto immune diseases but am overall healthy. I have also outlived my immediate family (wife and two adult children) with the exception of my younger son who relies on me for assistance. I also do not have a relative (other than the younger son) within 1,000 miles of my primary home.
To some extent the in person hearings has held my retirement back. I have a second home in a vacation type area (warm in the winter). I will probably spend the winter there as long as there are no in person hearings. I can do much of my work online and in another, warmer in the winter state.
@10:00 AM
Seems consistent with my experience. The client's you're madly certain are totally disabled rarely look half as impaired as you're convinced they are. And when the client is disabled, it's usually fairly obvious from the medical records. On the other hand, judges are rarely fooled by the client who isn't disabled, but puts on a big show by dragging a cane or walker into the hearing room with them. And without the benefit of getting to see the person, many ALJs seem to err on the side of approving the iffier claims, along with a recommendation for a review in a year or two. So in the grand scheme, the whole situation is basically a win-win for those willing to set aside their stubborn prejudices and make the modest sacrifice to agree to a telephonic hearing.
Let's see: They told us if everyone stayed home for a couple of weeks it would stop the spread. Worked, didn't it?
They told us if everyone would wear a mask it would stop the spread. Worked, didn't it?
How many of you who are so opposed to going back to the office go to Walmart? How many of you go out to eat?
Since the other things the "experts" told us haven't worked, I'm sure you guys would agree, we need to shut down Walmart and all the other stores, don't we?
Unless we all just lock ourselves in our homes, we are going to come in contact with others. Have you noticed, Walmart is not wiping down those credit card machines between every customer. How many times are customers picking up items in Walmart and the grocery store and putting them back on the shelves to be touched by someone else? So, unless you're completely avoiding Walmart, the grocery store, restaurants, etc., your paranoia seems a little selective, don't ya think.
@12:59 PM
Those measures didn't work because they were ignored (and continue to be ignored) by huge swaths of the country. Based on your rhetoric, I'd wager you were among the many who failed to follow the guidelines. And no one (except perhaps the President) ever said this would clear up if we'd just follow the guidelines for "a couple of weeks."
If you want to pretend this is all some giant Chinese or Democrat hoax, then by all means, carry on and suffer the consequences. As for me, I'll keep protecting myself by getting my groceries dropped in the trunk and avoiding Wal-Mart and other confined public spaces. Just know that your inability to handle even minor inconveniences only prolongs the length of time us sane adults will need to keep taking such extraordinary measures to protect ourself.
Agree with @2:11, previous measures haven't worked, because we haven't worked them. Sit down restaurants here are just playing social distancing.
Maybe they can figure a way to make VTC hearings safe, but most of the rooms aren't very roomy. Then too, the judges will have to stop scheduling all the hearings at the same time (morning hearings at 9 and afternoon hearings at 1:30) Getting the stuff for the reps' offices is another matter. So my claimants come sit with me so we can get sick? The phone hearings have their issues, but for the time being, we can work with it.
There is much diversity between various OHO offices. I have been participating in hearings held in Lansing, Michigan, for the past 40 years. I believe that in person hearings could be resumed at OHO in Lansing on a reasonably safe basis. Likely, other offices are not suitable by physical layout to accommodate a return to in-person hearings.
I absolutely hate Trump and do not want to indicate that I agree with his sycophants that the virus is a Democrat engineered hoax. But, I do believe we have overreacted to the pandemic, primarily due to a complete lack of national leadership beginning with the moron in the Oval Office.
We need to push a national reset button and return to work at least where the need is great, such as a restart of OHO in-person hearings. Otherwise, we have no exit strategy for returning to normal behavior. This pandemic is not going to be a one and done crisis. There will be more and different viruses coming in the near future.
@7:04 PM
Why are you convinced the Lansing MI office can safely reopen for in-person hearings? Not sure what's happening in Lansing itself, but the HOs in MI draw from fairly large chunks of the state, and the state overall is headed in the wrong direction. At the moment, it doesn't appear the state would even pass the first hurdle of the half-baked white house reopening guidelines.
Also, why, exactly, are you convinced the US has "overreacted" to this pandemic. I see plenty of reasons to believe we've done the opposite. Take, for example, that our nation has one of the highest death rates among confirmed COVID patients, and has done the absolute worst job (by far!) controlling its spread on a per-capita basis?
This is a great blog. Want to thank you for keeping it up and keeping us informed. 8 know it is additional work.
You broke the story on home video hearings. On the same day of your post the SSA deputy commissioner of OHO had to send out an email to its personnel informing them of this latest development since the cat was out of the bag.
It is obvious to many us ALJs that our employer thinks very little of us and they hate the APA which gives us independence.
So it's safe for attorneys to sit in the same room as the clients, but not for the Judges and Court reports? I understand that some OHO could be crowded but it was not the case in most offices pre covid.
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