12% of SSA employees still unvaccinated. Biden Administration announced no punishments until 2022 for not being vaccinated. This plus the Omicron variant, means that SSA should back off of their planned January 2022 reopening.. There are two major risk factors now, Omicron plus unvaccinated employees.
Too early to declare Omicron the earth shattering end all. I know it makes a tasty excuse, but you have nothing to base any claims of Omicron being anything more than a variant. The other is if they dont want a vaccine, they dont want a federal paycheck.
SSA, second to last. The unvaccinated employees will be fired eventually. The issue is the general public. It is unlikely that SSA will have the balls to refuse entry for the unvaccinated. SSA should not reopen until it is fully prepared to refuse office access to all unvaccinated people: employees, contractors and the public.
How does a vaccination rate of 87.7 translate to a compliance rate of 95 % ? Is it because the un-vaccinated who have received an exemption are considered to be in compliance ?
@10:36 - Sort of. If an employee has filed for either a Medical or Religious exemption prior to the November 22 deadline, they are considered in compliance. The do have to have received the exemption to be considered in compliance.
@10:36, I believe the compliance rate is the reporting rate. So 95% of SSA workers have reported their vaccination status and 87.7% were vaccinated as of the date of the report.
Unvaccinated employees who do not have a valid medical or religious exemption should be terminated from employment. How many more people have to die or become ill due to COVID before folks realize vaccination is needed?
As far as I have heard, no determinations on exemption requests have been made. Being in compliance means either vaccinated or have requested an exemption.
I seriously doubt most of the exemption requests will be approved. So the number of "adverse employment actions" will eventually hit more than 5% of the workforce.
12:34 thinks if the dodge doesnt work they will all walk away from high pay and low benefits. I think the opposite, 2% or less. Personal values are one thing, but that monthly mortgage doesnt go away.
We have had 10 people quit or retire since Covid. Also, if long Covid is really a thing (and I believe it is) and people are filing disability for it, tell me why I have to go back and risk my personal health when my job can be done remotely?
My understanding is "long covid" refers to the long-term damage caused by covid, not the virus continuing to be active in the person's body and able to spread. That said, I'm not against keeping the field offices closed, with possibly setting aside a few hours per week where in-person is available with extreme protections in place to protect recipients, claimants, and employees from exposure to covid.
I agree--even with retirement eligible people...sure, the market's been really good lately, but how many stories have we all seen about even people in good financial positions (from an earning standpoint, at least) not being ready for retirement? Once these folks see what that monthly take home pension will actually be, how hard it can be to touch TSP/401(k)/etc. money until you reach certain ages, think about their family members who will need their financial assistance in the future, etc. I imagine many will decide they cannot yet give up their jobs.
And for those who aren't retirement eligible? An even smaller fraction of true believers. Assuming the administration doesn't completely cave and, I guess in January, starts disciplining and removing refusers without exemptions, I would bet my first born the total number of folks who still refuse will be less than half its current number. I'd bet my second born it's less than a quarter.
I'm walking, if I am called back. Why should I have to go in to a SSA office, when I can do my job from home?
I do believe the vaccine keeps employees from having to be hospitalized. But who knows what the variants will bring to the mix, and long covid is a concern too.
There are many private industry corporations and companies which are allowing continued remote work. SSA is not the only game in town for employment these days. There are currently large numbers of people quitting their jobs and moving on to greener pastures.
11:41 you dont have many places to walk to, they are all open for business and you have to come into the office to work. Less than 11% of the population is wfh according to the dept of labor, so good luck with that.
The question remains...should you be required to risk long term health complications to do a job that doesn't require you to be in direct contact with other people? The vast majority of SSA's work can be done remotely. Should anyone be asked to risk disability when it's unnecessary?
So white collar workers deserve protection, and those providing services to the white collar workers deserve what they get for not being white collar workers.
Gardeners work in the cold, heat and rain. So should all office workers do that too? Offices should reopen but much of the work can be done from home. Initial claims being easier to do over phone or internet vs post entitlement issues that are messy and may be done better in person. Not to mention SS5s.
It really has nothing to do with white collar or blue collar. It has to do with what’s necessary and what isn’t. It’s not necessary for anyone to have a retirement or disability claim taken in person. It can be done over the phone with no issue. So why risk your health unnecessarily? And not just your own health but the person your interviewing.
Honestly, some of you are so dense. Sure some jobs require contact others do not. I’m not suggesting anyone or any job is or should be required to put their health at risk unnecessarily. Shouldn’t the object be to protect people whenever possible? All people, not just SSA workers.
Some people don’t like working from home and are itching to go back to the offices! Awesome, let them have that choice!!!
Doctors, nurses, and other healthcare workers are exposed to patients with active COVID infections on a regular basis. Doctors that work in hospitals can't decide to permanently work from home because they "might" catch COVID. Public contact workers in field offices have to suck it up and accept the risk of dealing with the public or retire and find a different line of work. Either you want to do the job or you don't. Stop whining and go back to work or go home.
@6:22 - I’m not a doctor or nurse or any other healthcare worker. I didn’t take sign up for that risk. I’m also not a policeman or fireman or even a cashier at at store. I sit behind a computer screen and push buttons all day in between answering phone calls…so try again. I’m doing the same thing at home I’d be doing in the office…no changes for me so why should I be required to risk potential disability for no reason?
But, just to give you a glimmer of sunshine, I am looking for other work. Maybe I’ll find something, maybe I won’t. I have 3 years left for retirement from government service, but my health is more important than some ridiculous need to be in a cubicle in some office.
Maybe we should stop progress completely. Perhaps we can talk the agency out of the online filings as well as take away phone appointments. Obviously the only way the majority of the public can be served is in person.
Dont you SSA people understand that other office workers and thats all you are, you are office workers not rocket surgeons, are working in offices across the country.
Social service providers are doing the exact same type of public contacts for the same duration that you have and have been doing it for a year.
You can come up with all the excuses you want but we see the truth.
I agree the offices should be reopened for things that are handled best in person, but that really is a limited amount of issues. Pre-pandemic, over half the claims filed for Title II (retirement and disability) were filed online, frequently with the person filing never coming to the office. Pre-pandemic, the internet unit in our office did 95% of their work over the phone/internet and were handling by far a significant percentage of RSHDI claims. Those were the ones that weren't being handled by WSU, over 500 miles from where our office is. Probably 75% of claims not taken over the internet were taken by phone. So there is a legitimate argument for some work to be done from home, but not all. The difficult part of reopening will be determining how much can be taken care of via telework vs having employees in office.
Refreshing to see someone with the ability to reason and not just blame employees who have zero control over the situation.
You’re spot on, most of the work can be done remotely while some will need in-office attention. There should be an avenue for in-office visits when necessary but not on a “just cause I want to go in” basis.
But you are ignoring the fact that work is not being done. Filings are down. Fact. Phone times are longer, Fact. People cannot contact the offices, Fact, Documents are lost, Fact. The agency metrics show it isnt working as well as everyone is saying.
There is very little difference in the number of SSA staff now than before Covid and WFH started. Really no big or unusual drops in staff numbers. so what are the bodies that are there doing differently than when they were in the office?
9:29 There have been draconian cuts in overtime since the offices were open. For example Claims Specialists in PC7 have had no overtime for months. Two years ago they had about 20 hours per week overtime offered if they worked the max. Now, zero.
The cuts in OT have had a devastating effect. Lack of funding. (But I know it's more fun to blame it on lazy government workers who need to be called back to the office and have a supervisor standing over them)
@929 I wouldn't say there is a wave of retirements but talked to HR today and they said about double the normal amount of people are either leaving or retiring. Not sure what that percentage is but in my office some have transferred, retired, etc and while we have only 2 less than 2 years ago, 5 of the 11 are trainees and 2 of those were just hired so absolutely worthless. The trainees that have been working for a couple of years are just not very good. Not sure why--poor training pre pandemic, poor mentoring during pandemic, poor employees to start with. While the numbers may be similar to pre Covid, the experience is not at all and you need some seasoned workers to do the more difficult tasks and correct the ones that the newer employees make. New trainees are pretty much worthless plus they take a lot of time away from the most experienced who have to try to train them and mentor them for a couple of years. Opening the offices may help but I think the problem is going to go on for years after that.
32 comments:
12% of SSA employees still unvaccinated. Biden Administration announced no punishments until 2022 for not being vaccinated.
This plus the Omicron variant, means that SSA should back off of their planned January 2022 reopening..
There are two major risk factors now, Omicron plus unvaccinated employees.
Too early to declare Omicron the earth shattering end all. I know it makes a tasty excuse, but you have nothing to base any claims of Omicron being anything more than a variant. The other is if they dont want a vaccine, they dont want a federal paycheck.
SSA, second to last. The unvaccinated employees will be fired eventually. The issue is the general public. It is unlikely that SSA will have the balls to refuse entry for the unvaccinated. SSA should not reopen until it is fully prepared to refuse office access to all unvaccinated people: employees, contractors and the public.
How does a vaccination rate of 87.7 translate to a compliance rate of 95 % ? Is it because the un-vaccinated who have received an exemption are considered to be in compliance ?
@10:36 - Sort of. If an employee has filed for either a Medical or Religious exemption prior to the November 22 deadline, they are considered in compliance. The do have to have received the exemption to be considered in compliance.
@10:36, I believe the compliance rate is the reporting rate. So 95% of SSA workers have reported their vaccination status and 87.7% were vaccinated as of the date of the report.
Reagan showed us the template to deal with them.
Noncompliance, IMMEDIATE termination. Bar from all Fed positions for life.
This is a snapshot. When was it taken?
Unvaccinated employees who do not have a valid medical or religious exemption should be terminated from employment. How many more people have to die or become ill due to COVID before folks realize vaccination is needed?
As far as I have heard, no determinations on exemption requests have been made. Being in compliance means either vaccinated or have requested an exemption.
I seriously doubt most of the exemption requests will be approved. So the number of "adverse employment actions" will eventually hit more than 5% of the workforce.
12:34 thinks if the dodge doesnt work they will all walk away from high pay and low benefits. I think the opposite, 2% or less. Personal values are one thing, but that monthly mortgage doesnt go away.
We have had 10 people quit or retire since Covid. Also, if long Covid is really a thing (and I believe it is) and people are filing disability for it, tell me why I have to go back and risk my personal health when my job can be done remotely?
@6:45
My understanding is "long covid" refers to the long-term damage caused by covid, not the virus continuing to be active in the person's body and able to spread. That said, I'm not against keeping the field offices closed, with possibly setting aside a few hours per week where in-person is available with extreme protections in place to protect recipients, claimants, and employees from exposure to covid.
I agree--even with retirement eligible people...sure, the market's been really good lately, but how many stories have we all seen about even people in good financial positions (from an earning standpoint, at least) not being ready for retirement? Once these folks see what that monthly take home pension will actually be, how hard it can be to touch TSP/401(k)/etc. money until you reach certain ages, think about their family members who will need their financial assistance in the future, etc. I imagine many will decide they cannot yet give up their jobs.
And for those who aren't retirement eligible? An even smaller fraction of true believers. Assuming the administration doesn't completely cave and, I guess in January, starts disciplining and removing refusers without exemptions, I would bet my first born the total number of folks who still refuse will be less than half its current number. I'd bet my second born it's less than a quarter.
I'm walking, if I am called back. Why should I have to go in to a SSA office, when I can do my job from home?
I do believe the vaccine keeps employees from having to be hospitalized. But who knows what the variants will bring to the mix, and long covid is a concern too.
There are many private industry corporations and companies which are allowing continued remote work. SSA is not the only game in town for employment these days.
There are currently large numbers of people quitting their jobs and moving on to greener pastures.
11:41 you dont have many places to walk to, they are all open for business and you have to come into the office to work. Less than 11% of the population is wfh according to the dept of labor, so good luck with that.
The question remains...should you be required to risk long term health complications to do a job that doesn't require you to be in direct contact with other people? The vast majority of SSA's work can be done remotely. Should anyone be asked to risk disability when it's unnecessary?
So white collar workers deserve protection, and those providing services to the white collar workers deserve what they get for not being white collar workers.
Tell me again how great we are.
Gardeners work in the cold, heat and rain. So should all office workers do that too?
Offices should reopen but much of the work can be done from home. Initial claims being easier to do over phone or internet vs post entitlement issues that are messy and may be done better in person. Not to mention SS5s.
It really has nothing to do with white collar or blue collar. It has to do with what’s necessary and what isn’t. It’s not necessary for anyone to have a retirement or disability claim taken in person. It can be done over the phone with no issue. So why risk your health unnecessarily? And not just your own health but the person your interviewing.
Honestly, some of you are so dense. Sure some jobs require contact others do not. I’m not suggesting anyone or any job is or should be required to put their health at risk unnecessarily. Shouldn’t the object be to protect people whenever possible? All people, not just SSA workers.
Some people don’t like working from home and are itching to go back to the offices! Awesome, let them have that choice!!!
Doctors, nurses, and other healthcare workers are exposed to patients with active COVID infections on a regular basis. Doctors that work in hospitals can't decide to permanently work from home because they "might" catch COVID. Public contact workers in field offices have to suck it up and accept the risk of dealing with the public or retire and find a different line of work. Either you want to do the job or you don't. Stop whining and go back to work or go home.
@6:22 - I’m not a doctor or nurse or any other healthcare worker. I didn’t take sign up for that risk. I’m also not a policeman or fireman or even a cashier at at store. I sit behind a computer screen and push buttons all day in between answering phone calls…so try again. I’m doing the same thing at home I’d be doing in the office…no changes for me so why should I be required to risk potential disability for no reason?
But, just to give you a glimmer of sunshine, I am looking for other work. Maybe I’ll find something, maybe I won’t. I have 3 years left for retirement from government service, but my health is more important than some ridiculous need to be in a cubicle in some office.
Maybe we should stop progress completely. Perhaps we can talk the agency out of the online filings as well as take away phone appointments. Obviously the only way the majority of the public can be served is in person.
Dont you SSA people understand that other office workers and thats all you are, you are office workers not rocket surgeons, are working in offices across the country.
Social service providers are doing the exact same type of public contacts for the same duration that you have and have been doing it for a year.
You can come up with all the excuses you want but we see the truth.
@809 AM
I agree the offices should be reopened for things that are handled best in person, but that really is a limited amount of issues.
Pre-pandemic, over half the claims filed for Title II (retirement and disability) were filed online, frequently with the person filing never coming to the office. Pre-pandemic, the internet unit in our office did 95% of their work over the phone/internet and were handling by far a significant percentage of RSHDI claims. Those were the ones that weren't being handled by WSU, over 500 miles from where our office is. Probably 75% of claims not taken over the internet were taken by phone. So there is a legitimate argument for some work to be done from home, but not all. The difficult part of reopening will be determining how much can be taken care of via telework vs having employees in office.
@9:13
Refreshing to see someone with the ability to reason and not just blame employees who have zero control over the situation.
You’re spot on, most of the work can be done remotely while some will need in-office attention. There should be an avenue for in-office visits when necessary but not on a “just cause I want to go in” basis.
But you are ignoring the fact that work is not being done. Filings are down. Fact. Phone times are longer, Fact. People cannot contact the offices, Fact, Documents are lost, Fact. The agency metrics show it isnt working as well as everyone is saying.
Ah but work is being done. There just aren’t enough bodies to do it.
It is further behind then it was when offices were open with little change in the overall number of people. That dog wont hunt.
There is very little difference in the number of SSA staff now than before Covid and WFH started. Really no big or unusual drops in staff numbers. so what are the bodies that are there doing differently than when they were in the office?
9:29 There have been draconian cuts in overtime since the offices were open. For example Claims Specialists in PC7 have had no overtime for months. Two years ago they had about 20 hours per week overtime offered if they worked the max. Now, zero.
The cuts in OT have had a devastating effect. Lack of funding. (But I know it's more fun to blame it on lazy government workers who need to be called back to the office and have a supervisor standing over them)
@929 I wouldn't say there is a wave of retirements but talked to HR today and they said about double the normal amount of people are either leaving or retiring. Not sure what that percentage is but in my office some have transferred, retired, etc and while we have only 2 less than 2 years ago, 5 of the 11 are trainees and 2 of those were just hired so absolutely worthless. The trainees that have been working for a couple of years are just not very good. Not sure why--poor training pre pandemic, poor mentoring during pandemic, poor employees to start with. While the numbers may be similar to pre Covid, the experience is not at all and you need some seasoned workers to do the more difficult tasks and correct the ones that the newer employees make. New trainees are pretty much worthless plus they take a lot of time away from the most experienced who have to try to train them and mentor them for a couple of years. Opening the offices may help but I think the problem is going to go on for years after that.
Glad we can run out the same old excuses and keep them fit and healthy.
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