From HuffPost:
Byron Jones just wanted a printout with his Social Security number on it so he could apply for an apartment.
But when Jones showed up to the Social Security office in Northeast D.C. with a receipt saying he’d filled out an online application for a replacement card, a man at the door turned him away, explaining the office is closed except for appointments.
Jones, a 45-year-old hospital worker, didn’t know what else to do. If he has to wait until the replacement card arrives in the mail, he said, he’ll miss his chance this week to fill out a rental application for the apartment he wants.
“No one answers the phone,” he said. “It hangs up on me and then when I get down to the Social Security place, they say I’m not allowed to come in.” ...
Jones ... was just one of five people HuffPost observed knocking on the Northeast D.C. field office door Monday and being turned away — all within half an hour. ...
In May 2021, the Social Security Administration announced people who need replacement cards can arrange special “express interviews,” but only if they’re unable to order a new card online, as Jones had already done. Jones said he had planned to apply for an apartment this week and the card won’t arrive on time, and all he needed was some other document proving he had a Social Security number.
The field office worker who turned Jones away gave him a number to call. He dialed it right away and got a busy signal.
I keep posting this sort of thing because the biggest issue facing the Social Security Administration now, by far, is its inability to do that which it was created to do, serve the public. I see an agency in the midst of a crisis. It seems incapable of doing anything other than urging the public to use its online systems, even though it knows that the online systems are incapable of handling many issues and many people with issues are incapable of using the online systems for anything.
33 comments:
Why is it a Social Security problem that a landlord asked for proof of SSN?
What happened to his original card? Maybe he should have kept track of it considering it's a vital Federal document. If he had a receipt then his replacement card will arrive in 3-5 days.
@9:59
I'm 33 years old and have never had a social security card given to me or been requested to provide one at any time.
It's on my to-do list.
Ahh yes...blame the claimant. Classic. Just what I have come to expect and why i have so little respect for the agency any longer.
He's not a claimant or beneficiary if he doesn't have a claim pending or id he's not receiving benefits.
He's a member of the general public requesting a federal document for a non-SSA related purpose.
Is it the BMV's fault if I lose my driver's license?
Is it my employer's fault if I misplace my W-2?
I don't understand the logic here.
Besides, he was not denied a replacement card. The article says he applied online and is waiting for it come in the mail.
The bigger issue is, despite all the claims about how great telework is, the work isn't getting done. Claims and documents are not getting processed, phones are not being answered. But, hey, as long as the unions say it ain't safe, we must bow to them (nevermind that the rest of the world has been back to work for a long time)
Just out of curiosity, what would the field office give him on the spot to prove his SSN?
10:44 I hope that you have to deal with people like you for the rest of your life.
Cant answer the phones or wont answer the phones?
Cue the lists of excuses.
The last three nights I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express in a southern county of Michigan. No masks. People intermingling. Breakfast served cafeteria style in the morning. I have had the vaccination and a booster. I feel safe. Did a series of video conferences from a conference room at the facility. Restaurants are open, people are dining, shops are open, people are shopping, courthouse is open, proceedings being conducted as usual. What am I missing here? Why are field offices and OHO of Social Security not doing in-person work as most everyone else is doing these days in our communities?
I tried to get a duplicate Social Security card, because the state to which I moved requires proof of Social Security number to get a driver's license. I do have my original, but it is laminated and therefore unacceptable. A recent original W-2 would work, but of course I've been getting electronic W-2s for many years and they won't take printouts of those.
I should have been able to replace a duplicate online (according to SSA's website), but the system would not let me. So I filled out the form and mailed my passport card to the local office. That was returned, after allegedly being scanned, but the Social Security card never came. After calling twice, it seems they couldn't find the scan. They didn't bother to tell me this until I called. I gave up, and just renewed my driver's license from my old state online.
Bottom line to me,is the social security administration fully functional?
Chuck i liked the previous blog color scheme.
It is not possible to reach this field office by phone. They put you through a random sequence of menus, hold music, beeps, and dead air and then disconnect you after 19 minutes. If you are lucky you get connected to a teleservice center, who can barely tell you what is in the computer system and definitely cannot tell you if the field office got the documents you submitted or if they plan to do anything with them. If you don't have an extension of a supervisor, you are completely out of luck. I agree that there are other ways for lots of people to get proof of their SSNs (but not everyone has the tech, knowledge, etc. to do it) and that landlords shouldn't be requiring this, but there are a lot of people trying to reach field offices for things they can't manage any other way who are just not able to get through. It's not unique to SSA--I've been trying to call the IRS and they literally just say "too many people are trying to call, go online or try again another time" before hanging up. But it's a real problem.
@12:01...your wish has been true for the last 2o years...I work for SSA and deal with this on a regular basis.
We all have to do what the rules require. When I applied to work for the agency I didn't have my SSN card. Did they bend the rules for me and let me apply in a way that was convenient for me? The short answer is now...they hired me on a contingent basis, made me take leave and then I had to go to a local office and wait in line like everyone else to get my card. Then wait for it to be mailed and so forth and so on.
I honestly don't see what the problem is here. I didn't have my card so I had to make the time to go get to and wait for it. If the agency had decided not to hire me, then on to the next opportunity I would have gone...and I would have made sure I had my SSN card.
It sounds like he has "excuses"...something most of the regular posters here blame SSA's employee for having. I guess when the shoe in on the other foot, it's still the agency's fault...nice.
Blame the victim is such a sweet way to shift the focus from the crappy service to someone else. And the mindset of current employees who seem to have this as the default mode is truly distressing. "I could do this, so if you can't it's you who are the problem, not the system". And the virtue signaling, "I can follow the rules, why can't you?" Yeah. "How is it SSA's problem that a landlord requires an SSN card?" It's public f*ing service, fer crying out loud. Sure the public is a PITA, and can be a bunch of whiney entitled folks but damn, it seems the current crop of employees is their equal in being whiney and entitled and smug. This isn't an issue of right and wrong, it's an issue of service to the public. Why the F do you care/think it matters as to what service he gets due to why he needs what he needs?
It used to be we helped people, but it so seems like the agency no longer views that as its mission. At least based on many of the opinions of employees we see here. Talk about making excuses.
This really infuriates me. I have worked at the agency for 20 years, and it is very rare for people to actually have an emergency need for an SSN card. Sure, they think their situation is an emergency, but its usually just poor planning on their part and we are made out to be the fall guys. All of you bashing on SSA would not last one day with the stories, excuses, yelling and berating we put up with. Yes, we want to help our customers, but they are not entitled to special treatment or jumping to the front of the line because of a situation THEY put THEMSELVES in. Further, it is not SSA's fault that the SSN has become a universal identifier for corporations and other government entities - that was never the purpose of an SSN to begin with, nor is it part of our core mission. No one would ever expect same day service for their passports, but they expect to walk in to an SSA office and pick up a card? We have to be careful and deliberate about the SSN process and we have to VERIFY everything, as there is so much fraud and identity theft happening. The commenters on this blog act like SSA is just withholding SSN cards for no legitimate reasons.
And, there are some SSA employees who would like to get back to the office to work... but guess what, the Agency will not let us go to the office... and that in part is due to union agreements but the Agency/Union issues are not helping the public or those employees who would like to get back the business of in-person service..
I can only do what the rules established by the agency and Congress allow me to do.
Do I think some of the rules and the hoops they make people jump through are ridiculous? You bet I do! I think it's downright shameful that when you have the offices shut down for in person service yet you expect someone, anyone, to send in their original driver's license or state ID by mail, just so it can be held on to indefinitely or lost or who knows what.
But how is that my fault? I am paid to do a job and I am bound by the rules of that job just like anyone else. The anger here is directed at the average SSA employee who has absolutely zero to do with the decisions being made.
I'm not the most empathetic or compassionate person in the world but if I can process what you want when you want it and with whatever you have...why wouldn't I? I get no pleasure from denying a claim or charging an overpayment or denying a SSN card replacement.
I and the majority of the employees are doing the best we can with what we are given. My office has 4 employees down from 15 pre-pandemic. We have 3 trainees that can't do a lot and are still learning. So 4 of us to answer hundreds of call per day, conduct 16-20 appts per day 9not including online filings), overpayments, SSN cards and so much more. And it's not an excuse to say WE JUST DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO KEEP UP WITH AND PROCESS THIS WORK! And I'm fine going back to the office for in-person service, but now add walk-in traffic to the already unmanageable work and I just don't see how service will improve.
It shouldn't matter why he wants proof of his SSN. SSA is supposed to give it to him when he asks.
10:23 Yes you did have a card at least once. Maybe your mother is still holding it for you.
11:55 The office would give him a numident printout showing his name and number, quick and easy.
Someone please explain to me what you think we gain as SSA employees by providing poor service? There is absolutely zero incentive to do so. We can only provide service in the way we are allowed.
1:02 I'll tell you "what you are missing". Over 3000 people died yesterday from COVID.
The majority of office workers have not returned to work in the USA.
There is now a new variant of the Omicron variant that may be 50% more transmissible.
Spare us your absurd fantasies about how the pandemic is over and life is back to normal except for SSA being closed.
I applaud SSA for caring about the lives of their employees and the general public and remaining closed.
And telework is working quite well, despite what some of those who are on the outside may think.
Once the offices reopen, the numident printout will cease to be available. So, then what’s your answer? If the offices were open regular hours he’d be wiring on his card with no printout available. Sounds like the same situation.
You guys are idiots
The agency needs to get back to the basics and it's core mossion. If we did that, the quality would increase. If quality improved we would have better customer service, less phone/walk-ins, less litigation, etc. Unfortunately we bow to and bought-off by advocate groups, attorneys, third parties that dictate and decide what work we do. We just run in reactive, chaotic circles which degrades the quality of service that our public deserves and that many of our staff would prefer to deliver.
All the detailed reasons why someone can't be helped, the rules, it's the person's own fault. It's like a competition on how it's easier to say no than to say yes. Reading comprehension must also be pretty bad for a lot of folks because the guy in the story wasn't asking to jump the line to get a new card. One poster above said it. All he needs is a numi printout. That's it.
All this drama about personal responsibility, hands tied by rules when all the guy needs is someone to listen to him, fire up the computer and print him a NUMI. He's on his way. Citizen served.
But wait, he cannot just get a NUMI because offices are closed, it's not an appointment eligible situation and the wait time is what? Catch 22? Ah, then option 1, blame the citizen for needing the NUMI in the first place. Clean hands are tied then, right?
Does SSA still give a numi printout? I thought that ended. It’s not SSA’s fault he needs a card immediately. It’s no different than expecting to get a passport the day before a trip. When this happened to me they didn’t give numi printouts, they just told me to either wait on the card or take something else with my ssn as proof.
Precisely! I am scratching my head at the rationale of the small number of SSA employees who have expressed a desire on this blog to return to working in poorly ventilated offices in the midst of the worst wave of the pandemic. They must think they are immortal.
All you defending the agency... Sorry but those of us who have been lied to by employees and seen gross incompetence and negligence by employees on a regular basis don't buy it. I know you guys are overworked but when a problem has been pointed out to multiple employees on multiple occasions and it gets ignored until a petition for a writ of mandamus is filed in federal court, there is a problem. It shouldn't take a federal court case to get a simple piece of paper processed. Employees should not lie about whether something will be taken care of or whether it has been. Employees should not lie about having not received something only to change their story when confronted with the green card proving they did. This is regular behavior and seems to be ingrained in the culture of the agency. I'm sure there are good hard waorking employees there but the predominant culture now seems to be dishonesty and incompetence and some of us are sick and tired of seeing it all the time.
And, spare us your whining about COVID. The rest of the world is out there doing their jobs. We don't have a federal employee union demanding we get special treatment.
To those of you hardworking employees out there, the few. I know you exist and thank you and I wish you the best in trying to work in that mess of a bureaucracy.
@6:19--The Numident printout was revived AFTER the pandemic started. If offices returned to in-office service then, presumably, the Numident printout would be prohibited again. Thus the person mentioned in the story would not receive that same day verification. This happened often prior to the pandemic.
11:15 AM, January 29, 2022 - In response to your diatribe... "...ignored until a petition for a writ of mandamus is filed in federal court" In the more than two decades I've worked for the agency no one in the field office I've worked in has ever received such a writ from the courts...so....either we are aces by your assessment methodology or you're the one full of mandamus!
Correct, the numident print out is not allowed and has been brought back while the offices are closed to the public in an effort to be able to provide a print out for emergency situations. Once the offices reopen, the numident print out will cease to be an option.
As a matter of fact, if memory serves, I think that policy is set to expire at the end of February unless the agency extends it.
I love how everyone on here that doesn’t work for the agency is so certain they can do the job much better. I’m not even bothered by that and in fact, please come help us struggling offices out. We can certainly use the help.
And to the person who commented about not telling someone something can or will be done and then not doing it, I agree with you. I stopped giving out any time frames under 30-45 days shortly after starting to work from home. Why? Too many things I don’t control. If I need someone in the office to scan something for me or mail something for me…good luck. Even when it’s management, things don’t get done timely.
It’s extremely frustrating. Timeframes to process a replacement card in our office is about 30-45 days. Claims allowances…no clue, they gave me prioritizing redeterminations ALL day every day. It’s seriously messed up at SSA right now.
5:08 PM. Who is the union? Who does it, supposedly, represent? So, either the union is following the wishes of the minority or the majority DOESN'T want to go back to the office.
Meh, the agency lied me into the job in the first place. You want better service? Fix that SSA has amongst the lowest employee morale and highest turnover rate of any federal agency. Fix that it is woefully undermanned compared to how it was 20 years ago despite having a higher case load than ever. Fix that it's continuing to process everything through literal Reagan era software.
@Tim Having worked for SSA for 30 years, I have never had the union ask my opinion on anything. IN my experience, the local union representatives (in the FO) were among the worst and laziest employees. Can't speak for who is in the union above local reps.
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