Social Security has recently published
National Beneficiary Survey: Disability Statistics, 2015. It contains a
jarring statistic on what happens when a recipient of disability benefits returns to work. When that happens and the person's disability benefits are supposed to be adjusted because of the work, 53.2% of the time Social Security gets the adjustment wrong and overpays or underpays the claimant.
18 comments:
I'm on SSDI. I would like to try to work to earn a bit more money and more importantly to stay busy and have more social interaction. The problem is that I have read about one nightmare after the other with the Ticket To Work Program if someone is unable to continue working and needs benefits reinstated. Its just too risky and complicated so I take the safe course of action and just stay with my benefits. I know many others feel the same way. I've read about too many disastrous experiences with expedited reinstatement. Given the SSA's backlogs and poor service these days one would be taking a big chance utilizing their back to work programs. Its really a shame. I think the low utilization of these programs is telling.
If is SSI only, my bet is that the overpayment or underpayment happens 100% of the time.
No matter how timely you notify us of your work, a large majority of the time we don't have the necessary proofs to take action right away which delays a notice of proposed action. Even if we have all of the information necessary, an effectuation of a decision can still not process through correctly and will require manual adjustment by PC.
I have retired from SSDI/SSI practice after 27 years. Only a very few clients were able to actually work at SGI level and continued to do so for more than 2-3 months. A few who succeeded for a time and lost benefits had a h*** off a time trying to get back on. ALJ's really grilled them (forget about DDS-that was always a denial)and usually denied, believing that if they were able to work for a few months, they could work permanently.
As a result I ALWAYS recommended that my clients NEVER attempt to return to work. Those who decided to try were then cast out of all support from SSA.
And for those who try to work, the rules are so complicated that a bonus can push their earnings above SGA. It's possible that one high month can mean SSA finds that dib ceased due to work; checks stop but also SSA sends a large overpayment letter. I've seen SSA make the determination retroactive for 2 years, and even a modest benefit can mean an overpayment of $25K or more. SSA is not applying the work incentives, either. Some offices must be short-staffed or ill-trained, because some SSA Claims Reps uses gross earnings and don't apply IRWE, subsidy, etc. The whole area of work incentives is a minefield for disability beneficiaries. SSA is quick to judge "you should have reported", even though when claimants try to report SSA won't write it down. Maybe the new computer reporting will be more reliable.
So did SSA go back and pay the 32.4% of beneficiaries that they underpaid?
@2:12
They usually do, it just takes years. While delay might not seem significant, as it all works out in the end, that ignores the significant financial hardship, stress caused by uncertainty of having your basic needs in jeopardy, etc.
If SSA wants people to try to work, they need more carrots, less stick. Give people incentives to try... Make it 6 continuous months above SGA before benefits are reduced. Benefits should only cease after 9 months above SGA in a 12 month period, with a automatic return to partial benefits if SGA drops below 80% of SGA and full benefits if below 50%. More carrots, less stick. Even a donkey can figure this out!
I think everyone agrees that the work incentives are well intentioned, but the model assumes that SSA has the Operational and Systems capacity to pull it off and SSA does not. In terms of complexity, if you design a return to work program (or any program for that matter) that requires spending money on experts who have to explain the program rules to beneficiaries (WIPA's) - then that should have been a red flag from the very beginning. However, if you detach the work incentives and associated wage reporting burden from the Employment Support/Voc Rehab aspect of Ticket to Work - the latter piece works pretty well for beneficiaries receiving employment services.
I love the way everyone here complains about RTW but at the same time yells and screams that Claimants are too disabled to work, ever ever again. But, hey, whatever.
@9:25
A claim of disability requires the inability to work for at least 12 months due to a medically-determinable impairment precluding them from either returning to past work, or engaging in alternative work in the national economy. Permanent disability is not a prerequisite. Your argument is a straw man.
I want disability and my paycheck too, they need to work on that.
12:41PM. It's not about a paycheck and the disability. People who want that can already work at a level that allows them to keep the disability. However, if you want them to try to work full time, you have to reduce the risk. Right now, for most, the reward simply doesn't outweigh the risk. This is especially true if it took several years to get approved. When you add medical insurance into the equation... Unless the reward is possibly big, why would anyone try?
And thats the attitude. Why should I try when I can just get a check. That sums it up perfectly, I get a check, Medicare, prescriptions coverage, if I am low enough income, I get Medicaid to pay the Medicare, rent and utility assistance and food. Why try.
@1015--people with good jobs try because they would rather make $7000 per month vs $2500 on disability. People that make $12 an hr don't as often because they'd rather not risk their disability. People on SSI only? Forget it! There's a reason they are on SSI and forward thinking and industriousness are not attributes they generally have.
9:46. PM. PLEASE, tell me where someone with a RFC of Sedentary with occasional use of hands can make $7000 a month? I am game to try...
6:49 You want an anecdote? I knew a man making $60K a month and quadraplegic. Of course, there were plenty of accomodations and support systems in place. He remained an SSI recipient for Medicaid and Social Services under 1619b. And he fell through the cracks one time and it took quite a bit of manpower by SSA to get him reinstated correctly.
Each work incentive was just layered on top of the existing work incentive in an attempt to make the system more 'fair', like subtracting IRWE or identifying UWA, etc. But like another poster said, SSA does not have the Operations (staff) and systems capability (exceptions have to be resolved at the PC and not the FO) to administer the work incentives easily, timely and correctly. But that would probably continue to be true even the existing rules are all tossed and new law applies later.
My entire career at SSA consisted of too much work to complete in the time I was on the job. Every single day. Never ever ever caught up. Never finished the backlog.
Tim it isn't our job to find you a job, it is your job to find a job!!!!!! This is Claimant mentality at its finest. I am disabled and cannot work, but if somebody finds me a job that pays I can work. Find me a job, tell me where the job is, no personal responsibility, no getting training, exploring other avenues. But deny them and listen to them complain!!!!!
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