From KMOV in St. Louis:
A bizarre letter from the Social Security Administration had one local man scratching his head. They claimed he owed them money from nearly 50 years ago.
"You were overpaid when you received benefits as a student," the letter Rick Wosmanski got said. "I owed a total of 122.80 and I thought this is unusual .. It was 48 years ago. Give me a break," Wosmanski said. "I have a hard time remembering 48 hours ago." ...
"I was 19 years old!" Wosmanski said. He was 17 when his dad passed away and Wosmanski was entitled to his father's social security survivor's benefits. When he was no longer a full-time student, the Social Security Administration says he wasn't eligible anymore to get the money.
Trouble is, he doesn't ever remember getting paid and thinks his mom might have cashed the checks instead. "The rest is a mystery. Went to the grave with my mom," Wosmanski said.
And now out of the blue, this letter. Even a phone call to the Social Security Administration and still they insisted he owed them money for a check he shouldn't have received.
"I said 'is there some kind of statute of limitations on this' and she said 'no, you owe us the money.' Just like that," Wosmanski said. ...
One quick email from News 4 to the government and sure enough, a change of heart. A spokesperson told us they couldn't comment on Wosmanski's situation specifically, but said "based on the information on our records, it appears we will be able to resolve this issue," saying someone would be reaching out to Wosmanski directly. ...
This isn't some odd mistake. Trying to collect ancient overpayments is routine for Social Security. Trying to collect overpayments when there's no proof of an overpayment is routine. Immediately solving the problem for one individual when the news media asks about it is routine. This is all routine!
11 comments:
Old underpayments are made as well. Not going to make the news but they happen too.
If he was overpaid as a student he received the money, unless his mom forged his name. He would have been his own payee at 18 automatically. It's not worth the hassle for $100+ bucks in this case. But SSA is supposed to recover overpayments, be they a few weeks old or a few decades old.
SSA: "Based on the information on our records, it appears we will be able to resolve this issue."
In SSA management crypto-govspeak, this means "Well, since this created a public PR mess that makes us look like stupid jackasses, I'll just have one of my lackeys resolve it for me by waiving the overpayment under the $1000 tolerance and then tell them that 'All is now well.'".
Which is what the government should have done automatically (considering the low amount owed and, due to its age, there will be NO documentation of this overpayment anywhere except in the MBR), something they'll never do.
You'd think agency management would learn by now, but I've decided that they just aren't mentally capable of it ....
Yes, of course, we should believe 48 year old OPs are normal daily activity for the agency. Some dedicated wfh person poured over every single account and discovered this being diligent between loads of laundry and helping the kids with math. All just another sunny day in Pleasant Vallley. SMH
@9:51
I highly doubt the administrative costs involved in calculating and attempting to retrieve this alleged overpayment did not exceed the actual value of the overpayment.
Regardless, did the switch in payee at the age of 18 automatically happen 48 years ago?
@11:56 AM
Have you seen how much mail is sent over something like this? Just the postage and the time involved in paying someone to mail two dozen notices that say contradictory things costs over $100. Not to mention the time it takes someone in the agency to actually attempt to verify the overpayment if the person doesn't just send in a check. And if the person does send the check, they will continue to get notices saying they didn't send the check and the person will waste time of the field office workers in trying to figure out what record the check was applied to.
Likely triggered by automated computer process and notice. Unlikely a rep ever worked this case, sent a letter, etc.
@5:56
11:56 here. Agreed. That was my point, that recouping the alleged overpayment probably cost more than the overpayment itself.
There are tons of overpayments on the books for former children whose rep. payees fought the cessation and lost. The rep. payee was not docked the amount in the case I recall, even though she was clearly at fault and later drew her own disability, unreduced. So the kids would have the charges on their acounts until they retire. Who should pay back that amount?
There should be a statute of limitations for collection efforts on overpayments which were not noticed timely, say, 5 years. By statute, SSA is supposed to notify a beneficiary/recipient of the amount of the overpayment, month-by-month (actual payment/should have been paid) but does not. It's bordering on criminal for SSA to fail to document the overpayment and then send dunning letters (up to and including bill collecting).
A statute of limitations would make sense but there isn’t one on the books.
And no it doesn’t take any real administrative cost to trigger these notices for collections. These overpayments have been sitting there just waiting to be triggered. There’s no figuring done until someone files an appeal or waiver. The hope is they’ll just get paid.
Most overpayments like this are noticed somewhat timely. But if the child/student is no longer receiving benefits, it's not so easy to recoup from him or her. There may be some effort for a bit but if that doesn't resolve it, the overpayment will sit until the person files for benefits many years later. It's not like SSA looked at his record now and said you are overpaid eons ago. The overpayment was noticed eons ago but the overpaid person or their payee did not repay it when originally notified. Would anyone like SSA to garnish wages for overpayments like this?
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