I've sorta asked the question before but never received what I thought was a definitive answer. To what extent will the elimination of WEP/GPO require manual recomputations? How much of this can be done through IT? These are important questions.
If there will be manual recomputations, I'm going to be upset if they take priority over Social Security straightening out my clients' windfall offsets and workers compensation offsets and other such routine issues. The WEP/GPO people can take their turn in line like everybody else. If it takes six months or longer, and it will if these folks aren't granted priority, welcome to the reality of what the Social Security Administration is today.
23 comments:
Nobody knows. Or if someone knows, they're not telling anyone. The SSA blog has more information than what the field has been given. Because senior "leadership" at SSA doesn't know how to plan or communicate.
Even if it's a simple software change, there are still going to be massive workloads created from new applications and missed entitlements. With a hiring freeze, no budget, no leadership, and once again being the worst agency to work for in the federal government.
So I hope you and your clients like soup and sandwiches, because it's going to be a giant soup sandwich.
Social Security benefits due because WEP/GPO is now illegal
The Social Security Administration must immediately stop taking money withheld from almost 3 million people now that the Social Security Fairness Act (SSFA) made that illegal. That law did not allow a "grace" period to delay enacting that law so to permit government to continue the theft of earned benefits. How many people will die and not receive the money owed them because of SSA's delay? SSA suffers no penalty for slow walking what fixes a decades old problem, but innocent people continue to suffer the financial penalties until earned benefits are restored.
Effectuating the SSFA should be a simple matter of programming the SSA payment formulas to set WEP/GPO deductions at $0 effective December 2023 and continuing and forcing a recalculation of benefits to issue payments based on information for individuals already known by SSA. A notice explaining the reason for payment can be very generic, much in the same manner as when almost 68 million people receive yearly notices when cost of living raises increase benefits with most of those people also notified when changes in Medicare Pt. B deductions affect benefits paid.
This action does not require a complicated revision of formulas that calculate benefits due. All eligibility and payment factors are already known. The factors that determined the exact amount of the WEP/GPO deduction are also known. All that is needed is to remove the poison pills that are the Government Pension Offset (GPO) and Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP). Do not accept bureaucratic excuses as to why something so simple cannot be done quickly to effectuate the SSFA. This action deserves priority.
For new claims for SSA benefits, all questions concerning government pension payments must be removed from applications. If that is a programing problem, then those questions must be answered "NO" to prevent incorrect payment calculations.
As much as possible, these recomputations will be automated. There will probably be test runs to see what, if any, MBR conditions prevent automation and proceed from there. Once exception(s) have been identified, policy for general processing of this workload can be issued. Of course, this is only for people already on the rolls and does not consider other issues as mentioned by prior poster.
1044 how do you know it’s a simple change?!?!
Translation…I’m not waiting in line and I should go first or I’ll complain.
Spoken as someone who has absolutely no clue as to the difficulties involved and how the real world works.
Exactly how are you going to enforce your entitled world view? Go hire a lawyer (if you can find one that will take you on) and sue the agency. Since the vast majority of WEP/GPO determinations are administratively final, there are no pesky administrative appeal issues involved that would prevent you from going directly to the federal courts.
Good luck with that, and get over yourself.
Your case isn't any more important than that of anyone else with a pending action before the agency.
To 10:00 AM, January 10
Because people file for Medicare to start at age 65, I doubt if there are “massive workloads created from new applications and missed entitlements.” The people you fear will show up have already filed their social security applications, some of them many years and even decades ago.
Their eligibility and payment history are already known, including for widows and widowers. Many of the people suffering under GPO which began in 1977 and WEP which began in 1983 have died prior to December 2023, the date the Social Security Fairness Act ends the theft of part of earned benefits. They will not be contacting Social Security. Others who are now old enough to be eligible for benefits would file their applications regardless of WEP/GPO just as others who would not have been harmed by WEP/GPO.
It is clear you hate working at SSA. Does that hate affect how you deal with the public as well as with other employees in your office?
lol. Almost nothing at SSA is automatic. Maybe for the people who are already entitled. However, beneficiaries' PIA's are going to increase when they are "un-WEP'd." What about their lower earning spouses who will now all of a sudden be dually entitled/deemed? What about other auxiliaries such as entitled children under the previously-WEP'd beneficiary? That's gonna require time, people, and money of which we don't have.
I smell another phased rollout coming: Phase I, Phase 2 ... Phase 737... Respectfully, 10:44 has no clue of the intracies of the matter.
“ Because senior "leadership" at SSA doesn't know how to plan or communicate.”
lol another big part of the problem is that senior “leadership” doesn’t understand how the systems work nor how the work is actually accomplished. Many MANY of them have been out of the field for 20+ year OR have never ever done field work and just weaseled their way into their position without actually touching any mission critical work that is done in the field. Big part of the reason why the agency is an absolute dumpster fire.
@1248. You have no idea how the agency works. A substantial number of people haven't filed for spouses benefits because they couldn't have their Medicare premiums deducted from their CSRS pension if they were on as a spouse in GPO. SSA doesn't have that list and those should now file. Others didn't bother to file at all as they didn't want Medicare and there was no money payable. Most of those may be dead but no one knows how many there are.
Perhaps you haven't been to a field office after some news report tells people they may be eligible for more money when the report is wrong. In this case it's correct so even more will flood the offices.
It was good timing as January is the busiest month of the year for retirement applications.
@1:30. Spoken like a true SSA veteran. Am I mistaken, or did I hear rumors that they will be rolling out a web-based T2 application soon in CCE? Perfect timing to mesh that rollout with the expanded un-WEP-ing and un-GPO-ing actions... Time, people, and money... too bad those things can't be signed into law.
Sounds like a bad joke: How many phases does it take SSA to roll out new software? Answer: At least as many phases as we've had acting commissioners in the past decade.
How will the retroactive benefits work for people who never applied? Say someone is getting retirement benefits for their work in the private sector, but their spouse only had non-covered employment and a pension big enough that they wouldn't have gotten anything from SSA once GPO was factored in. If they apply for spousal benefits this month, will they get benefits going back a year, or is that only for people who previously applied? And will previous applicants who were completely denied be worse off than previous applicants who were getting a small amount after GPO?
Contact your local office to get the information. One too many questions. Expect delays and good luck.
@8:40, local office can't answer any of those questions. There has been zero guidance.
Retroactivity is 6 months for RSI and 12 months for disability. No exceptions
@3:47pm,
The people who never filed will be subject to the regular retroactivity limits of the benefit that they need to file for. Which, for retirement and survivors, will be 6 months for the majority of those people. An exception will be those entitled to retirement benefits that were subject to deemed filing rules where a spousal claim was not taken -- those folks will have open applications to protect them. Everyone else, not so much.
The ones that didn't file on the advice of SSA to allow them to keep getting their Medicare premiums deducted from their OPM annuity? Who knows - that will probably be determined by the inevitable class action lawsuit that will be filed on their behalf.
Many truisms in all these comments but factually it will probably take “as long as it takes.”Having worked for SSA for 40 years starting with the rollout of SSI I’ve really seen it all.The biggest problem of course is inept leadership and lack of proper funding.These cases do deserve some priority but no more than others awaiting benefits.When people start complaining to their Congressional representatives it may get done a little faster.As someone who is affected by both the WEP&GPO I’ve already told me wife to file for the underpayment if I die before I receive my retro !
There are workloads at SSA that are more vital than removing WEP/GPO. Initial awards are higher priority.
I recently worked on a court remand case that sat in the backlog for 11 months after the ALJ decision, before a CS even looked at it. It's been several years since that claimant filed, and they have had zero income since then.
I have waited longer for the changes to WEP/GPO than any WC offset dib mill claim in history, so we were in line for decades!
No you weren't. You were paid exactly what you were due under the law until the law was changed. The new law just sunsetted the WEP/GPO offsets as of 01/01/2024, it did not change anything that occurred prior to that date.
Now, you are in the same boat as everyone else. People that had stuff pending before Biden signed the new law will take precedence over you.
That is just the way the world (and SSA) works.
Per guidance at a meeting this morning, standard protective filing rules apply to anyone not currently entitled on a WEP’d or GPO’d record, even if they were told not to file because the benefit would be zero - since there was no misinformation at the time of the initial claim. In other words, there will be a large group of claimants unable to get revisions back to January 2024. Cue thousands of appeals. Cue a class action lawsuit.
I am retroactive a year, so put me in line there, quit posting on blogs and do the work we pay you for!
I will give you the real info. Here is what SSA will say. They will say you get it when you get it and if it is wrong and even our fault, its not our problem. You have the right to appeal. See thats the way it is on any program there or any issue. You are just a file, dont care if it cost you money, dont care if it is a hardship, dont care if we screwed it up. You have the right to appeal is the shield they hide behind to be able to sleep after making a mess of peoples lives. Anyone that says otherwise is a straight up liar!
Post a Comment